|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
20 May 2019, 18:36 (Ref:3904942) | #1726 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 11,087
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
|||
|
20 May 2019, 18:38 (Ref:3904943) | #1727 | |
Racer
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 299
|
He does, but I very respectfully disagree. In my view the 500 is so different to the rest of the season that spending time and money on doing that is a waste of said time and money. There are plenty of one-off drivers and teams who do make it into the show. I do wonder, what would have been said had he made it in at the last second? Remember, he's only out by the tiniest of margins!
It seems to me a lot of people are using this chain of circumstances as a stick to beat McLaren with, or alternatively to pump up IndyCar's prestige. Last edited by ApexTurtle; 20 May 2019 at 18:45. |
|
|
20 May 2019, 18:45 (Ref:3904944) | #1728 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 6,137
|
Quote:
Now when is the last time an Indy-only driver/team actually won? |
|||
|
20 May 2019, 18:49 (Ref:3904945) | #1729 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 11,087
|
There are plenty of one-off drivers and teams who make it in. Generally, those are American teams who have run on ovals and Indy in Indy Lights. It's almost like the experience of having run these type of cars on these type of circuits is providing them with some sort of advantage that McLaren do not have.
We're onto ifs, ands and buts. What if he made it in? He didn't. He was close! Well, sure he was. But he isn't in. What would've been said? Probably "why are they fighting to be on the grid? They should be better than this". And since Fernandos stated goal is to win the triple crown, you have to assume that just scraping in would not be where he wants to be, If the McLaren situation can be considered a "chain of circumstances", then maybe McLaren should be questioning why that is. At the end of the day, experience counts. Everyone else is gaining experience faster than him. |
|
|
20 May 2019, 18:52 (Ref:3904947) | #1730 | |
Racer
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 299
|
That's a good point and I have no idea, but how many one-off drivers are Alonso level talented? Alonso showed back in 2017 that he has what it takes to win the thing. He just needs a better car than this year. In other words, business as usual for him
|
|
|
20 May 2019, 18:56 (Ref:3904949) | #1731 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 299
|
Quote:
It is indeed McLaren that failed here but there is nothing to suggest the experience of an entire season makes much of a difference. This is going dangerously far off topic though, oops. Last edited by ApexTurtle; 20 May 2019 at 19:05. |
||
|
20 May 2019, 19:07 (Ref:3904952) | #1732 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 11,087
|
Of course, he has what it takes to win it. But that doesn't automatically guarantee him a win. Working with a full team for a full year to gain the advantages that gert previously mentioned will increase his chances.
And remember, there are no "better cars". He needs a team to setup the car better, but he and his feedback are part of that prorcess - which goes hand in hand with what gert previously said. When you have a race engineer which fully understands the car, and fully understands you as a driver, you increase the chances of making better decisions. DragonSpeed managing to achieve something does mean that others would not benefit from experience. However, DragonSpeed entered 2 previous races before Indy. McLaren entered none. One of these teams qualified, the other did not. Quote:
|
||
|
20 May 2019, 19:12 (Ref:3904954) | #1733 | |
Racer
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 299
|
||
|
20 May 2019, 19:19 (Ref:3904955) | #1734 | ||||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 12,043
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The reason McLaren ended up with Carlin is basically that's the only Chevy option left in the field without going at it alone. Penske: NO CHANCE IN HELL there, he has his team and isn't selling franchises any time soon ECR: Second best Chevy option, apparently it was rumored Ed Carpenter threw out a HUGE number to run as the third car. It was rumored to be enough to run the car all season just to run Indy. Otherwise, Ed Carpenter is staying in a car himself as he loves Indy and does well. Ed Jones is his driver so not taking him out of the seat for Indy and McLaren. Piggot's seat maybe, but Ed has all the leverage and McLaren didn't want to pay. Or hold their breathe Ed's family wants him out soon and snap that seat up asap, and suck it up to pay for the expertise. Foyt: Well it should be obvious but he's not exactly the most open and hospitable gentleman to anyone, but money talks. They aren't exactly front runners most days. Ganassi and Andretti are both out of reach without a major chance in Honda attitude. HPD seems OK with Alonso and said they would build engines but Honda of Japan over-ruled their decision. That would include RLL as well, the rest are not much better than joining on their own. The best option for them is to build up a team with Carlin if they have to just for the combined testing and setup books. But they needed to be on Andretti dampers months ago and get the feeling and dial it in. A couple of laps isn't going to do it. And build one good car and plenty of oval spares, things happen and spares may have made a difference. Plus practice at rebuilding cars, might have gotten him on track much sooner and found that .019 he needed. |
||||
|
20 May 2019, 19:27 (Ref:3904957) | #1735 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 11,087
|
Oh I don't mean McLaren. Honestly, I see no reason to stick with McLaren. If I were Fernando and I wanted to win Indy, I'd go chap on Rodgers door. Rodger might well say no, and rightly so - as you point out, he has his team. But it's worth asking. Start at the top and work down.
|
|
|
20 May 2019, 19:53 (Ref:3904959) | #1736 | |||||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,112
|
Quote:
Are you talking about yourself, someone here or the broader topic even beyond this forum? You have a contrary opinion. There is nothing wrong with that, but be prepared for people to challenge you on it. Call it drama if you want. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Richard |
|||||
__________________
To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one." |
20 May 2019, 20:43 (Ref:3904967) | #1737 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,112
|
Quote:
I can't remember the details, but I "think" I remember Alonso looked hard at a full time Indycar ride for 2019, but it didn't work out for whatever reasons (good seats already taken in established teams???) So then you are left with a one off ride with "someone" for the 500. With McLaren considering running full time their and Alonso's goals sort of match up. It would give McLaren a way to, as I say, "dip a toe in the water" and get a better feel for what it takes to run an Indycar team solo, and it gives Alonso a seat for 2019. Including potentially a team he may race with in 2020 in either F1 or Indycar. Maybe decisions to be made toward the end of the year depending upon how the 500 went as well as how well the 2019 F1 season goes???? (i.e. Does Alonso want to race in a 2020 McLaren in F1) I wonder if behind the scenes they would have had to have known they were at a serious disadvantage to the established team and had little hopes of winning. That my definition of "success" was not their expectation?? A win is a possibility for anyone who qualifies, but I suspect them not making it into the race at all, was NOT an expected outcome. Richard |
||
__________________
To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one." |
20 May 2019, 20:55 (Ref:3904968) | #1738 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 11,087
|
https://www.foxsports.com/motor/stor...-errors-052019
That is an absolute embarrassment. And yeah, experience with the car would have meant things like being able to work with the correct units, knowing the gear ratios and having steering wheels available. |
|
|
20 May 2019, 21:12 (Ref:3904971) | #1739 | |
Racer
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 299
|
Those are all things McLaren should know without any knowledge about Indycar itself. All race cars have gear ratios and steering wheels. Nothing to do with specific Indy experience
|
|
|
20 May 2019, 21:20 (Ref:3904972) | #1740 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 11,087
|
Gil DeFerran used the E word. Like he knows something.
Quote:
The steering wheel absolutely is Indy experience. They had to buy one and weren’t aware they had to select the correct package. They did not include the paddles. They didn’t know this because they build their own in F1. They were a customer here and didnt know what they were buying. Had the been running the program for months then they’d have crossed that bridge a long time ago. This is how you learn things and gain...experience. Last edited by Akrapovic; 20 May 2019 at 21:25. |
||
|
20 May 2019, 21:33 (Ref:3904976) | #1741 | |
Racer
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 299
|
We could do this all day
|
|
|
20 May 2019, 21:36 (Ref:3904977) | #1742 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,431
|
They had months to prepare but didn’t.
They begged/bought a set up and forgot to convert imperial to metric! Then they put the wrong ratios in! Now I see them blaming Bob Fernley and throwing him under the bus. Laughable. Embarrassing. Joke. |
|
|
20 May 2019, 21:51 (Ref:3904979) | #1743 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,112
|
Ouch. Well... these are the types of stories that makes motorsports interesting.
I blame Alonso! If McLaren had a different driver none of this would have happened! Richard |
|
__________________
To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one." |
20 May 2019, 23:38 (Ref:3904986) | #1744 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,608
|
Quote:
|
|||
|
21 May 2019, 00:02 (Ref:3904987) | #1745 | |||
14th
1% Club
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 44,022
|
Quote:
|
|||
__________________
Brum brum |
21 May 2019, 00:48 (Ref:3904988) | #1746 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,088
|
Quote:
As far as Fernley goes, either he screwed it up, or it was just plain under resourced. Would probably go with - was set up to fail. At the time of Fernley's appointment McLaren CEO Zak Brown commented: "Bob is a fantastic operator and someone I respect greatly. His experience and leadership will be essential for us on this project. "He is particularly talented at putting effective teams together and extracting maximum performance with finite resources. The Indy 500 is no easy race and Bob's is a key role, so I'm delighted he's on board." https://au.motorsport.com/indycar/ne...392569/?nrt=86 Seems to be the Zac Brown playbook, remove yourself from responsibility. There should be some questions asked about his and DeFerren's roles in this mess. Fernley's IndyCar experience would appear to be out of currency and too "historic" to have any immediate bearing on a competitive assault on a win. |
||
|
21 May 2019, 02:03 (Ref:3904997) | #1747 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,112
|
Quote:
Maybe Alonso can take his curse to Williams? Two wrongs make a right? Williams F1/Alonso as WCC/WDC in 2020?! I laugh, but I hope some good and future success for both McLaren and Alonso come from this fiasco. Richard |
||
__________________
To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one." |
21 May 2019, 02:05 (Ref:3905000) | #1748 | ||
14th
1% Club
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 44,022
|
Me too. I’d have loved for them to succeed at Indy and/or turn it around in F1.
|
||
__________________
Brum brum |
21 May 2019, 02:14 (Ref:3905004) | #1749 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,608
|
Quote:
|
|||
|
21 May 2019, 06:43 (Ref:3905013) | #1750 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,088
|
Quote:
It was well reported that McLaren's efforts were shambolic well before the actual event. The results on Saturday and earlier Sunday speak for themselves, but people in Alonso’s camp were telling reporters quietly, not for attribution, “We didn’t come prepared.” https://www.indystar.com/story/sport...ms/3670736002/ Can you see this mess unfolding under Ron Dennis' management? |
||
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Ghosn: "Renault won't stick around if we can't compete". | Knowlesy | Formula One | 15 | 28 May 2007 12:20 |
Winton can’t compete with richer raceways...... | retro | Australasian Touring Cars. | 28 | 25 Jul 2006 00:33 |
Can Button Compete with the Likes of Kimi And Alonso | marzF1rocks | Formula One | 22 | 31 Mar 2006 11:59 |
Kimi Raikkonen and McLaren - can they continue their current form? | Yoong Montoya | Formula One | 23 | 1 May 2003 00:26 |
Can the Pilbeam compete with the Reynard and the MG Lola? | H16 | Sportscar & GT Racing | 8 | 27 Jan 2003 16:51 |