Delta Wing Discussion ONLY

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

I thought the Delta Wing does have four wheels.

Yeah well , you know what I mean ..... and 2 little front ones only count as 1 anyway

[Mindspin13B]

Some of the comments are hilarious

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/10/18/w.../#aol-comments

[Dave_G]

Originally Posted by joeb

But at the same time it also appears that Gunnar had plenty of room to his right.

It appears that way, but if you want to get through that downhill turn intact you'd better not be using the right side of the track there.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Dave_G

It appears that way, but if you want to get through that downhill turn intact you'd better not be using the right side of the track there.

Very true. Ultimately the best angle to judge this by would be from above and we don't have that one. If I had to guess what happened I would say the Porsche saw the DW but just misjudged where its rear was and moved over too quickly.

[skeeskirrt]

Wow he just got punted! I guess that's what happens when a 475 kg car gets creamed by a Porsche 911?

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Dave_G

It appears that way, but if you want to get through that downhill turn intact you'd better not be using the right side of the track there.

I think it may be time that the circuit organisers at least drew a line that you have to be inside in order to enter the pits. To prevent cars going on the racing line and then hacking back across the track to go into the pits.

Long term, the pit lane entrance needs to be relocated.

[Purist]

Having guys coming slow out of there while others are on full acceleration is also a recipe for disaster, Wnut. And there is no good solution for the pit lane, which, they have two of them at Road Atlanta, but you'd probably say that the outside one has its issues as well.

If you aren't going to destroy the track, and/or destroy the topography, there's only so much you can do with Road Atlanta and the terrain it's built upon.

[pablocomics]

The driver's helmet hits the grass, that car doesn´t seems to be the most safe car in the grid

[WolfsburgRS]

Originally Posted by pablocomics

The driver's helmet hits the grass, that car doesn´t seems to be the most safe car in the grid

Yeah as I was watching Gunnar's head get banged around I thought two things. First, he's lucky to get out without some serious injury as it is (that could have very, very easily been much worse) and two, it's a good thing his visor held up or he could have been subject to some eye injuries to boot.

Plain and simple, as an idea it works, but it does not have the stability with that narrow front end to be safe. Imagine if a hit like that had taken place at the kink at Road America, or into turn 1 at Sebring.

[Livininthinair]

I think this is going to be a continuing issue with the Delta, almost the same location of impact as at LeMans this year. Having such a narrow front/wide rear it really gets unstable when hit from the side. The other issue is how easily it rolled, no one was hurt but I sure Gunnar would like to avoid ever doing that again. At least this did not happen in traffic or at race pace - could have been much worse.

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by Livininthinair

I think this is going to be a continuing issue with the Delta, almost the same location of impact as at LeMans this year.

In fairness, it didn't roll at Le Mans and I don't think a conventional car would have fared any better in that incident.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by pablocomics

The driver's helmet hits the grass, that car doesn´t seems to be the most safe car in the grid

Originally Posted by WolfsburgRS

Yeah as I was watching Gunnar's head get banged around I thought two things. First, he's lucky to get out without some serious injury as it is (that could have very, very easily been much worse) and two, it's a good thing his visor held up or he could have been subject to some eye injuries to boot.

Gunnar himself said his head never hit the ground. got knocked against the chassis a few times, but not ground.

[chernaudi]

I don't think that the narrow front track helps matters, but I believe that the DW's weight (relative to the other machinery on the track) is a huge factor. Like at LM, it was a lot easier for the Toyota to punt off the under 500kg DW than it would've been for a 900kg LMP1 or LMP2 car, and the Toyota would've sustained a lot more damage than it did.

I believe that the DW's light weight was a major factor in both accidents.

[gttouring]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

I believe that the DW's light weight was a major factor in both accidents.

this is a big deal as sports cars do bang around more often than they claim not too, and the front narrowness did make it roll over itself. the video is startling and good to have, put it to rest, it is dangerous to drivers, or keep it light and widen the track or add an emergency outrigger.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by gttouring

....keep it light and widen the track or add an emergency outrigger.

That actually might have helped in this case. It looked like the DW popped up in the air at the point of impact, before it really got sideways. So if a rod popped out of the side to hit the ground and bounced it back on its wheels.... If anybody saw SouthPark the other week when Cartman was in a mobility scooter you would know what I am talking about!

[WolfsburgRS]

Originally Posted by gttouring

this is a big deal as sports cars do bang around more often than they claim not too, and the front narrowness did make it roll over itself. the video is startling and good to have, put it to rest, it is dangerous to drivers, or keep it light and widen the track or add an emergency outrigger.

I could imagine that a roll in the Delta Wing at top speed may end up looking like a top fuel dragster when it barrel rolls down the track.

[CyberMotor]

About the lightness. That point at the top of the hill coming under the bridge is where almost all of the cars get light as they start down the steep incline. The Delta Wing was hit right as it was beginning to enter its lightest.

In the press conference in 1998, the first Petit Le Mans, Allan McNish said after the first Thursday night practice, "I was jumping the car coming under the bridge. I saw some lights over on the other hill by the media center and used those to line myself up before I jumped the car." Crazy stuff. But, I saw McNish accelerating into the new turn 10a as others were braking. So, by the time he got to the bridge he was flying, literally.

Not sure the Delta Wing flies through there or not. But, the cars are their lightest at this spot on the track. And, that's when the DW got tagged.

[Pandamasque]

CyberMotor makes a good point, all cars get very light there, that's why that Porsche needed to turn in before the brow in the first place. But a rectangular car would still spin, not fall over like that. The impact itself was a lot like the common move police interceptors are using to spin evading vehicles.

Originally Posted by joeb

If anybody saw SouthPark the other week when Cartman was in a mobility scooter you would know what I am talking about!

Haven't seen much SouthPark, but I instantly thought about the numerous gags with mr. Bean's Mini narrowly missing that Robin, which would promptly fall over

[Scooter185]

Originally Posted by WolfsburgRS

I could imagine that a roll in the Delta Wing at top speed may end up looking like a top fuel dragster when it barrel rolls down the track.

At work my boss got a Toyota calendar with each month being a different race car powered by Toyota. I've been staring at a top fuel dragster all month and I think sitting still the DW looks like one, just without the front and rear wings.

[CyberMotor]

I think modern prototypes have the ability to flex, hunker-down and squat, when necessary. I'm not sure the quick and nimble Delta Wing has that flex, hunker-downess and squat-ability, yet. I'm definitely not writing the design off as it has great potential. Just hoping that it gains the ability to respond to bumps from larger cars with less dramatic effects.

Here's a photo from the 2011 Petit Le Mans during testing as the Peugeot 908 comes flying through turn 6 and runs up on a much slower Porsche 911 GTC car.

http://www.lasersol.com/CyberMotor/p...tting_3047.jpg

You can see that the car is flexing and the rear wheels and suspension are in one angle with the right tire almost off the ground while the front tires are folding over at the top as they 'squat'. In my opinion, there's a whole lot of twisting, adjusting and dramatic suspension adjustments occurring in this photo.

The driver's head is leaned way to the inside as it's obvious he is undergoing huge G-loads. These are the types of capabilities that the Delta Wing needs to incorporate as it competes against larger competitors.

I've been impressed with the way it has run, so far. I did notice yesterday that the driver was letting off at turn 6 before other cars. That's a high G-force turn. Maybe, just as the GT's have undergone a new 'widening', the Delta Wing could add a foot or two to its front stance?

[Pandamasque]

'Flex' doesn't sound like the right term to me. Suspension travel maybe? LMP bodies are very rigid.

[CyberMotor]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

'Flex' doesn't sound like the right term to me. Suspension travel maybe? LMP bodies are very rigid.

Yes, you are right. 'Suspension travel' would be a better term. The suspension travel gives the car a lot of flexibility.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by joeb

Here is some great video of the crash from the DW and the conquest car.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uW7q...e_gdata_player

Always hard to judge these things but it appears there is some movement by the green hornet car. And Gunnar was nearly completely passed when the impact occurred.

But at the same time it also appears that Gunnar had plenty of room to his right.

Just saw this. That could have been nasty.

[Machin]

Best lap analysis from Petit Le Mans:-

[FstrthnU]

http://www.lemans.org/en/races/24h/u...wing_9106.html
A little cutout of the Deltawing