[WEC] LMP Future Regulations (was Le Mans EVO rules - now hypercar rules)

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by Acid09

I'm pretty sure they're in it for the long haul provided the company doesn't run into difficulties somehow.

They entered with the knowledge of Peugeot still around so I really don't see how they could have been hoping to win within 2 years.

Their cautious approach (hesitating to confirm a second car, setting no spectacular goals) shows that it's a carefully-plan long-time program.

And if either Nissan or Honda step up in the next few years (which is likely), there's even less incentive to leave. All that provided that the company doesn't suffer some kind of hit.. because we all learned the hard way that this can kill the most solid programs in an instant.

I really hope you are right when it comes to Toyota. I don't really read into their decisions the same way as you and it is a bit disconcerting so see someone like MulsanneMike saying they are just in for the short term.

A lot will depend on what happens this year. I completely agree that if another Japanese manufacturer arrives they will be more inclined to stay.

[Acid09]

You just don't win Le Mans with a short-term effort, it will take 1-2 years just to fully catch-up and become competitive.

When they entered F1 they had a step-plan on how long it would take them to be competitive and I think they planned to win races after three years. Granted, that first win never came but it shows me that they understand you can't go into a new series and expect to mop the floor with everybody right away.

Plus, unless they run into financial trouble, there's nothing pressing coming for them next. Back in 1999, the F1 project was already around the corner so there was tremendous pressure to finish the sport car efforts. I don't see anything like that this time.

They had quite a long breath in F1 despite no or little success, they were long-time competitors in Group C & GTP as well.. all in all I really don't see much sense or indication for them to only come for 2 years.

[Simmi]

Like I say I really hope you are right Acid. I suppose the BoP will be an important issue too. They can't be made to feel like they are fighting an uphill battle.

I'll be giving them my full support this year.

[Acid09]

I'm pretty sure the ACO will do all they can to get them up there, it's in everybody's interest (including Audi's) that they can be competitive as quickly as possible.

[gregtummer]

Does anyone know if there is serious consideration from the ACO to remove the fins and the holes in the 2014 (or 2015) regulations?

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by @mulsannescorner

With FIA involvement in ACO 2014 rules, suddenly many tight lips. Tho we don't think there's been the delay to 2015 as suggested elsewhere.

source: http://twitter.com/#!/mulsannescorne...50466763481089

[deggis]

Originally Posted by ger80

Maybe they should move fuel formula forward to 2013 then. That should help the marketing people a lot and also solve the diesel / petrol BOP

Not solve, but make it much easier.

Originally Posted by gregtummer

Does anyone know if there is serious consideration from the ACO to remove the fins and the holes in the 2014 (or 2015) regulations?

It's only hopeful speculation. Obviously the reasoning for this idea is that since the chassis changes will likely be biggest since xxxx it enables a complete underbody revamp. I worry that since the fins are now basically proven solutions, they don't dare to take the risk of removing them.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

source: http://twitter.com/#!/mulsannescorne...50466763481089

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/newsjan12.html (almost hidden, under the Toyota update)

Recent rumors out of Europe have suggested that the ACO2014 regulations were to be delayed to 2015 because of disagreements amongst the various parties. We've contacted our usual sources and the resounding chorus is that no, to the contrary, the FIA and ACO continue to work diligently to produce the new regulations. And the expectation is still that the new rules will be out sooner rather than later. As the months go on one does begin to wonder what "sooner" means (recall that just a few months ago the anticipation was to see the rules before the end of 2011)? The ACO and FIA are due to meet again on February 14.

[gwyllion]

The FIA is still on track for a set of LMP1 rules in 2014.

The first 2012 meeting of the World Motor Sport Council took place today, 9 March, in Milan, Italy, and the following decisions were taken:

FIA WORLD ENDURANCE CHAMPIONSHIP

Following many meetings between the FIA, the ACO and the LMP manufacturers, the main guidelines of the 2014 LMP1 technical regulations have been approved. The details will now be finalised by the World Endurance Championship Commission.
These regulations will be presented to the WMSC in June.

source: http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre...sc-090312.aspx

[alexkiller8]

until some time ago the 2014 (or 2015 regulamentation) were most about a weight loss of cars and green attitude (more hybrid focus and planned consumes for the race as happened in group C era). Rumors about aero and bodykit were that lmp1 will be reserved just for coupè cars backed by manufacter's work team and lmp2 reserved for private teams

[gwyllion]

The 2014 rules will be more extensive than a focus on fuel efficiency. The over dimensions of the cars are rumored to change.

Regarding 2014, we're hearing that overall dimensions more than likely will be changing. The current proposal is a 1900 mm maximum width and a 4500 mm maximum length (the current regulation is 2000 mm and 4650 mm respectively). The cockpit width isn't expected to change though the cockpit height dimension could increase slightly. There aren't expected to be any changes to the front and rear overhang dimensions.

source: http://www.mulsannescorner.com/newsnov11.html

These rumors has been covered earlier:
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...th#post2975372
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...th#post3014866

[TF110]

I just hope weight drops and hp is about the same without the cars making a dramatic change in looks. -10cm width isn't much of a big change. Hopefully they could figure another way to keep the cars on the ground besides fins and holes, though. I look forward to hearing more details.

[alexkiller8]

Originally Posted by TF110

I just hope weight drops and hp is about the same without the cars making a dramatic change in looks. -10cm width isn't much of a big change. Hopefully they could figure another way to keep the cars on the ground besides fins and holes, though. I look forward to hearing more details.

-10cm width = a huge loss of body produced downforce, isn't a little detail. If the huge aero development will rise year by year as happens now, manufacters will keep on working on diffuser and venturi tunnels under the car chassis, this will let to have faster cars but even more possibly unstable, so i guess that we will se the fins for still a long time. Surely as happens now with toyota, audi and new lola coupè lmp1, the fin will become an integral aero part of the car.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by TF110

I just hope weight drops and hp is about the same without the cars making a dramatic change in looks. -10cm width isn't much of a big change. Hopefully they could figure another way to keep the cars on the ground besides fins and holes, though. I look forward to hearing more details.

I was talking about the way the cars LOOK. Their dimensions. 10cm may mean a big deal for aero, but if you think about it, they won't look dramatically different. You'll still be able to tell they are LMPs.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by alexkiller8

-10cm width = a huge loss of body produced downforce, isn't a little detail.

This change fits well with the fuel efficiency idea. A smaller frontal area means less drag. The maximum tyre width will also be reduced, again leading to a drag reduction.

[alexkiller8]

speaking about drag, the max speed will increase also because of rumored less weight of cars. About aero, for sure with reduced dimensions the body downforce will decrease but for sure engineers will be able to find other solutions to gain much more

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by TF110

I just hope weight drops and hp is about the same without the cars making a dramatic change in looks. -10cm width isn't much of a big change. Hopefully they could figure another way to keep the cars on the ground besides fins and holes, though. I look forward to hearing more details.

This is really bad news for aesthetics. The cars look very tall as it is right now because of the narrow cockpits and tall fins. So a decrease of width by whole 10cm together with an increase of cockpit height will mean a dramatic change in this direction:

[davehenrie]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

This change fits well with the fuel efficiency idea. A smaller frontal area means less drag. The maximum tyre width will also be reduced, again leading to a drag reduction.

Sounds like a Delta Wing!!!

[Maelochs]

Reduced width and narrower tires translates to "slower through the corners" which will make overtaking the new wider GTEs all that much more exciting.

I will wait to see what actually happens before I unlimber the big doom-prediction launcher, though.

[chernaudi]

Hopefully it'll mean faster straightline speeds if the cars have the same power or more after 2013. After all, it's easier to pass down a straight than in a corner, and 90+% of all accidents/collisions in racing happen in corners. We have to remember that most of the cars are now fairly equal in top speed, which means more risks have to be taken in cornering to get not only laptime, but through traffic, and that's part of why 2011 had such a bumper crop of incidents.

[gwyllion]

An update on the 2014 rules: http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...014-lmp1-regs/.

The rules will be made public in June during the Le Mans race week. No details are given on the rules themselves. John already repeats some of the rumors that have already be mentioned: emphasis on fuel efficiency, hybrids and decreased weight, and discussions of revised dimensions for LMP1.

[alexkiller8]

so 'till now speculations are: a min. weight of around 750kg; cars shorter, less wide and apparently a bit taller that should mean less drag (so higher max speed) but less downforce; tires width decreased; a sort of group C fuel formula and massive presence of hybrid tech in engines (will engines remain with actual specs? i guess that if cars will be lighter in someway also engines should be lighter to have the same weight ratio of actual cars), right ?

[Pandamasque]

ScarbsF1 12:50:03, 29 March 2012
Have a look at my 2014 LMP1 illustration, P20 in this weeks Autosport magazine

http://yfrog.com/z/nx9anrqmj

Anyone got a larger version?

[NelisB]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

http://yfrog.com/z/nx9anrqmj

Anyone got a larger version?

Send you a PM.

[Gingers4Justice]

Keeping the fins in the new regs is absolutely mind-boggling ridiculous.

Surely they can make rules that will keep the cars stuck to the ground without a BHF, which is surely just a temporary measure?

Sometimes the ACO infuriate me.