FIA GT World Championship 2012

[GT3.14]

Without BOP the turbocharged cars would just run massive amounts of boost and the Audis and Nissans would retain their production drivetrain , be unbeatable in the rain.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

Except for the joke that is the Dubai 24 and Bathurst 12h with their penalty systems

You must've confused these events with something else, didn't you hear that apparently these races represented the new coming of Group C rules as well as provided some of the most exciting strategy decisions of all time for the teams? Surely these events and regulations were great because there were many different cars entered - I mean that was pretty much the only line of defence the opposing party had when I raised up some criticism...

[TF110]

Originally Posted by KlBD

Right, becuase Ferrari has less engineering expertise in building race cars than Audi and Mercedes... >___> let's not get ahead of ourselves here, we're talking about the same Ferrari that turned the terrible F2012 into a championship contending car in F1.

You are right though, with no BoP the spending war between manufacturers is really more of a game of chicken.

They do have Alonso, and they admitted weather has played into their hands, as well as misfortunes of other teams. But I know what you're saying. Cars can be built as fast as the money can allow them, but with a budget set to them, this is what we get.

[rich07]

Originally Posted by urdragon

Quite reasonably since phillippe dumas said (at end of qualifying 1:48 ) probably hexis will leaving SRO world champ next year, so Hexis seems signing for GTE...

What about Blancpain for Hexis?

Unless he meant all SRO series.

[urdragon]

Originally Posted by rich07

What about Blancpain for Hexis?

Unless he meant all SRO series.

I think he blames SRO's BoP, which I think (Correct me if i'm wrong) is the same in BES, that's why I said hexis moving to GTE.

Check yourself in the hyperlink in blue of the qualifying I provided, in 1hour minute 48 (Sorry at end of the qualy): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=858iq...feature=relmfu

[GTKers]

Originally Posted by rich07

What about Blancpain for Hexis?

Unless he meant all SRO series.

they switch a gt1 car for a gt3 car... they are completly unhappy... I suppose they could switch to a GTE wich is much more similar to the old gt1

They may be interested in WEC or the IGTO

[Deleted]

I don't quite get it... he should know the risks of entering a category dictated entirely by lottery numbers aka balance of performance, of course everyone complains about in GT3.

That being said, DBR9 was somewhat favoured by SRO/FIA in the two previous years, escpecially in 2010. Which adds to frustration I suppose

[Speed-King]

Don't forget that Hexis have plenty of seasons of GT3 under their belt already with the old DBRS9s. So BoP should hardly come as a surprise.

[rich07]

Originally Posted by urdragon

I think he blames SRO's BoP, which I think (Correct me if i'm wrong) is the same in BES, that's why I said hexis moving to GTE.

Check yourself in the hyperlink in blue of the qualifying I provided, in 1hour minute 48 (Sorry at end of the qualy): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=858iq...feature=relmfu

"sorry this video is not available in your country" (Im laughing because its so stupid)

Ah so his problem is with SRO's BoP which would leave GT-E as the logical conclusion-or possibly International GT Open maybe? Hexis are a very capable team with some talented drivers and staff. Hopefully they would have better luck with a GTE McLaren then they have with the GT3.

[Deleted]

IGTO is frankly the only logical choice if you wanna enter GT2 outside States now, WEC is expensive and GT "coverage" is massively overshadowed by Audi marketing trucks... GT Open lets you run in the top class of a sprint championship in cheaper and frankly more competitive environment [than WEC GTE-PRO or AM]. FIA GT2 is dead and ELMS will soon follow

[GTKers]

Originally Posted by Chiana

IGTO is frankly the only logical choice if you wanna enter GT2 outside States now, WEC is expensive and GT "coverage" is massively overshadowed by Audi marketing trucks... GT Open lets you run in the top class of a sprint championship in cheaper and frankly more competitive environment [than WEC GTE-PRO or AM]. FIA GT2 is dead and ELMS will soon follow

Beside that IGTO has now a MASSIVE Tv coverage around the globe... For sure better than FiaGT, also in terms of Live Streaming

[Speed-King]

...and a massively idiotic competition format. Those pitstop penalty times might be nice for the drivers, but it absolutely kills the racing for the fans.

Took some friends to the Nuerburgring races and we all hated it.

It's fine and dandy for amateur series, but if IGTO has any pretensions of being a professional series they have to get rid of it.

[GTKers]

well I do not like success ballast at all but a t the end I prefer time penality than weigh on the cars!
I prefer to see the car go as fast as they can every time, not to have in mind that one has now 100kg more because it was too fast as in WTCC....
And for "fans" spot I do have to admit that time penality makes it really better as the faster car if it was 1st has now to regain places and that makes a lot more overtaking on track!

[urdragon]

Originally Posted by rich07

"sorry this video is not available in your country" (Im laughing because its so stupid)

Man, it's terrible to follow GT1 in your country, i've uploaded that part of the interview in vimeo, it's 240 cause it would take too much to down the full qualy race xD:



In your case i would use a proxy, i used to see Top gear live this way bypassing the BBC Geoprotection with a UK proxy (Tunnel to a UK PC to have an UK IP) , but in the end i realized better waiting 5-8h to see it HD, what it takes for the HD torrent to be uploaded.

As the GT1 streaming is so low quality you shouldn't have lots of problems with the proxy streaming

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by GTKers

well I do not like success ballast at all but a t the end I prefer time penality than weigh on the cars!
I prefer to see the car go as fast as they can every time, not to have in mind that one has now 100kg more because it was too fast as in WTCC....
And for "fans" spot I do have to admit that time penality makes it really better as the faster car if it was 1st has now to regain places and that makes a lot more overtaking on track!

The thing is - it doesn't work out that way... with the way the penalties are, there is a certain point when there's no coming back from them.

Which leads to:
'This car was so fast all race, why is it down in 5th place now?!'

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

...and a massively idiotic competition format. Those pitstop penalty times might be nice for the drivers, but it absolutely kills the racing for the fans.

Took some friends to the Nuerburgring races and we all hated it.

It's fine and dandy for amateur series, but if IGTO has any pretensions of being a professional series they have to get rid of it.

It's the visible form of success ballast / BoP... retarded yes but just because it shown to the public doesn't make it any worse than having gimmicks behind the curtains. If I had friends who liked sportscars this "holding cars stationary at the pit lane for no reason" would be easier to express to them rather than to explain why certain cars have extra ballast and different restrictors and waivers in them

[Speed-King]

At least with success ballast the fastest car on track wins.

It might only be the fastest car due to the previously fastest car being loaded with a bunch of lead, but success ballast equalizes the speed, whereas penalty times equalize only the outcome.

That's fun from time to time, but just look at last weekend's ALMS race and how many people said "Yes, it was a greeat finish - but..."

Having time penalties is in the best case producing this kind of finishes week in week out - in the worst it's just completely distorts the results of the on track action.

Also, a time penalty is a fixed number, whereas weight penalties can be made up to a certain extent by pushing harder, like taking a more extreme line over the curbs or being more determined in traffic.

[Deleted]

Weight penalties change the charasterics of the car and you are also screwed up in practice and qualifying, not only race. And Q is more important in these 70/50 min sprint races.

I don't see how it's any more confusing for the fans to see a car held at the pitlane for no reason than have a car that dominated the last race weekend struggling at the bottom of the timesheets for no reason. At least you will see some passing from the faster car that had to suffer extra times at the pits, the ballasted car is doomed for the entire race

But If I had to choose success ballast over that other thing, well that's another matter

[urdragon]

Originally Posted by Chiana

would be easier to express to them rather than to explain why certain cars have extra ballast and different restrictors and waivers in them

Well I would state the famous supremacy of the road 458 and maybe the road GTR, I would pretty invent few excuses for anything else explaining the causal fan, but explaining restrictors is, to balance the performance of cars by limiting the amount of gas allowed to enter the cylinder, limiting this way the HP output of the car (Like an small engine does a smaller output).

[Speed-King]

I guess people who follow a series enough to know which car was fast at the last weekend also understand success ballast or time penalties.

But that's a minority - most casual fans will care about their one "home" race, and then forget about the series for the rest of the year. They are at the track because the race was advertised or because they've been dragged along by a friend, but they aren't going to look up the series standings, let alone rule books.

[Deleted]

And that's why GT3 is a GREAT product not only for the teams involved, I mean personally I despise the class and everything it represents but for casual people who don't care/know it can be some quick fun with pretty sports cars that come to play in large numbers and that are magically bunched up together like horny rabbits.

[rich07]

Originally Posted by urdragon

Man, it's terrible to follow GT1 in your country, i've uploaded that part of the interview in vimeo, it's 240 cause it would take too much to down the full qualy race xD:



In your case i would use a proxy, i used to see Top gear live this way bypassing the BBC Geoprotection with a UK proxy (Tunnel to a UK PC to have an UK IP) , but in the end i realized better waiting 5-8h to see it HD, what it takes for the HD torrent to be uploaded.

As the GT1 streaming is so low quality you shouldn't have lots of problems with the proxy streaming

Many thanks I'll give it a go

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

At least with success ballast the fastest car on track wins.

It might only be the fastest car due to the previously fastest car being loaded with a bunch of lead, but success ballast equalizes the speed, whereas penalty times equalize only the outcome.

That's fun from time to time, but just look at last weekend's ALMS race and how many people said "Yes, it was a greeat finish - but..."

Having time penalties is in the best case producing this kind of finishes week in week out - in the worst it's just completely distorts the results of the on track action.

Also, a time penalty is a fixed number, whereas weight penalties can be made up to a certain extent by pushing harder, like taking a more extreme line over the curbs or being more determined in traffic.

I certainly agree with you, a lot of people bash weight penalty systems but it's more internationally accepted. With weight penalties the results because of it (and often not) are set well before (well, not in all cases) the race weekend begins. Where with Time Penalty it is given during the race and ruins the quality of the race itself often while penalising the fastest car during an event, it screws up the proceedings on track and I'm guessing, you went so you must know, it is damn confusing for spectators and television viewers. Also, weight penalties can help produce spectacular racing, just look at Super GT

Also, GT Open in general just isn't that big of a series, does anybody really care about it? They have lots of good cars on tracks with quality teams and drivers but every time I bother to watch I see nobody in the grandstands even at circuits that typically draw well. Just doesn't seem like that great of a series compared to Blancpain and some of the National championships, namely ADAC Masters. Mind you, for GT2 it's probably a MUCH better option for European teams than running in the WEC.

[GTKers]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

Also, GT Open in general just isn't that big of a series, does anybody really care about it? They have lots of good cars on tracks with quality teams and drivers but every time I bother to watch I see nobody in the grandstands even at circuits that typically draw well. Just doesn't seem like that great of a series compared to Blancpain and some of the National championships, namely ADAC Masters. Mind you, for GT2 it's probably a MUCH better option for European teams than running in the WEC.

Well public on track is an issue a that all the GT series has...
I've been to Monza for BES and there was maybe 100people, pretty the same at Silverstone and Paul Ricard where there where so little fans.
At Paul Ricard I've been this year also for elms and GTOpen and I spotted a lot more on the IGTO than other...
Gt1 there where some 5thousand of us only at nogaro, which is really small but then nothing at all...
In Monza for the IGTO normally there is no free space to walk during the weekend on the paddock, also in barcelona, beside that I don't see any other european/international GT series who does better..
In Valencia for DTM there where no more than 1000people...( all germans...)

Beside that I think that the series will grow really big next year, because those who really care about coverage are not interested in public at the track but in techical reach...

Just in term of value, of one second of your car catch on the cameras during the event means:
1 second on TV in BES is 50-70€ !!!!
1 second on TV in ADAC is worth 50-70€
1 second on TV in FIA GT3 100-150 €
1 second on TV in SUperstars is 350-400€
1 second on TV in FIA GT1 600-700 €
1 second on TV in IGTO is 700-750 €

Thats why coverage is so much more important than people on track,
Value of coverage make your sponsor belive it is ok to give you some money to play with...

[Speed-King]

1 second on TV in ADAC is worth 50-70€
[...]
1 second on TV in IGTO is 700-750 €

I find that very very hard to believe.

GT-Masters has a brilliant TV-deal as far as these things are concerned (All races live and free to air) and all races and TV in the teams home market.

GTO might be more international with Motors and whatnot, but an Italian company sponsoring IGTO gets absolutely nothing out of someone watching the race in the UK or Scandinavia.

And I've never seen IGTO on TV.