[BTCC] BTCC 2021

[S griffin]

Indeed. It's not like RWD cars haven't got disadvantages. In my view the cars that are developed best are on top, whether they are FWD or RWD

[AnnoyedMoose]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Indeed. It's not like RWD cars haven't got disadvantages. In my view the cars that are developed best are on top, whether they are FWD or RWD

The RWD has two huge advantages. Start line traction and traction out of slow corners. The latter can be offset to some degree with the benefits of FWD in other corner types assuming (unlikely) an equal spread of corner types.

The start line advantage is a different kettle of fish though. There's nothing an FWD car can do to combat losing multiple places off the line if there are no RWD equalising measures in place.

[BTCC frog]

RWD also has the advantage of better tyre management, while FWD has the advantage of getting tyres up to temperature more quickly.

Another big disadvantage of RWD cars is that they cannot save slides as easily as FWD cars, and they are more likely to spin if hit from behind.

An idea I had for a possible reason why RWD get so many handicaps is that a field of FWD cars usually has much better racing than a field of RWD cars (see Clio Cup/Mini Challenge vs Ginettas/Porsches). Therefore, Alan Gow does not want to see the BTCC become a predominantly RWD series; he would rather it remained predominantly FWD. The best way to do that is to handicap RWD so that, for most teams, FWD is the better option and the majority of the field remain in FWD cars.

[porsche962fan]

fact is the last FWD champion was Shedden in 2016 ...

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

fact is the last FWD champion was Shedden in 2016 ...

That may be true - but when was the last time a FWD was not in contention for the title?

5 different cars in 5 years suggests nothing needs to change.....

[Sodemo]

The amount of measures that have been imposed on RWD cars in order to "balance the field" is as long as my arm. In past decades the RWD cars have been 5-7% heavier and that was seemingly enough to balance things out (both supertouring and S2000 had RWD cars between 25-50kg heavier than FWD). I *think* the current NGTC RWD penalty is 30kg, then you add on whatever success ballast, so therefore the max weight a RWD car can be over a FWD is near 100kg. If a team / car / driver can't get near a car which is 100kg heavier, then there is something wrong with the opposition, because 100kg is a lot of weight to have to lug around.

[BTCC frog]

With all this discussion about the standard of the BTCC drivers at the moment, one thing that confuses me is why drivers from the WTCR aren't more inclined to switch to the BTCC. There are plenty of really good drivers in WTCR, and the overall standard is probably a bit better than the BTCC. However, the races are just so dull compared to BTCC races (I will admit I haven't seen that many, but the ones I have seen were nowhere near as good as BTCC races). If I was a top-class touring car driver from WTCR, I would definitely want to make the switch and drive in the BTCC instead, as I'm sure it is far more enjoyable to have close races with lots of overtaking and exciting battles.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by BTCC frog

With all this discussion about the standard of the BTCC drivers at the moment, one thing that confuses me is why drivers from the WTCR aren't more inclined to switch to the BTCC. There are plenty of really good drivers in WTCR, and the overall standard is probably a bit better than the BTCC. However, the races are just so dull compared to BTCC races (I will admit I haven't seen that many, but the ones I have seen were nowhere near as good as BTCC races). If I was a top-class touring car driver from WTCR, I would definitely want to make the switch and drive in the BTCC instead, as I'm sure it is far more enjoyable to have close races with lots of overtaking and exciting battles.

I think the short answer is money.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

fact is the last FWD champion was Shedden in 2016 ...

Yes, and forgive my memory here as I recollect

Sheds was also champion in 2015.

I think it was Colin RWD in 14.

FWD AJ in 13.

JP in the Chevy was 11 (or 10) and I'm sure Matt had a championship there or thereabouts.

The RWD "dominance" isn't. It's been the talented Turks in one of the best ever BTCC teams and young Ash Sutton who has a Senna like gift. Sutton won his titles despite the car I suspect, rather than because of it.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by BTCC frog

With all this discussion about the standard of the BTCC drivers at the moment, one thing that confuses me is why drivers from the WTCR aren't more inclined to switch to the BTCC. There are plenty of really good drivers in WTCR, and the overall standard is probably a bit better than the BTCC. However, the races are just so dull compared to BTCC races (I will admit I haven't seen that many, but the ones I have seen were nowhere near as good as BTCC races). If I was a top-class touring car driver from WTCR, I would definitely want to make the switch and drive in the BTCC instead, as I'm sure it is far more enjoyable to have close races with lots of overtaking and exciting battles.

Because one is a World Championship and they get paid.

The other one is a National Championship and they don’t.

If they have sponsors it depends which suits there needs best.

But world is always more prestigious to drive in and win.

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by BTCC frog

With all this discussion about the standard of the BTCC drivers at the moment, one thing that confuses me is why drivers from the WTCR aren't more inclined to switch to the BTCC. There are plenty of really good drivers in WTCR, and the overall standard is probably a bit better than the BTCC. However, the races are just so dull compared to BTCC races (I will admit I haven't seen that many, but the ones I have seen were nowhere near as good as BTCC races). If I was a top-class touring car driver from WTCR, I would definitely want to make the switch and drive in the BTCC instead, as I'm sure it is far more enjoyable to have close races with lots of overtaking and exciting battles.

Exactly, as was said, the reason is money. Yes, the WTCR field is definitely better than the BTCC, no doubt and yes, BTCC is more exciting and has a legendar status, contrary to WTCR. So it'd be ideal to see WTCR drivers in the BTCC but not only do the WTCR drivers are paid to drive (at least much more of them than in BTCC) but also for a potential sponsor it's way more reasonable to put money into 'World' championship because it gives prestige, a greater exposure = brand awareness etc. The sponsors don't care if the WTCR is not as exciting as BTCC.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by BTCC frog

With all this discussion about the standard of the BTCC drivers at the moment, one thing that confuses me is why drivers from the WTCR aren't more inclined to switch to the BTCC. There are plenty of really good drivers in WTCR, and the overall standard is probably a bit better than the BTCC. However, the races are just so dull compared to BTCC races (I will admit I haven't seen that many, but the ones I have seen were nowhere near as good as BTCC races). If I was a top-class touring car driver from WTCR, I would definitely want to make the switch and drive in the BTCC instead, as I'm sure it is far more enjoyable to have close races with lots of overtaking and exciting battles.

The simple answer: outside UK nobody really cares about BTCC. For sponsors WTCR and TCR Europe are more interesting.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by FIRE

The simple answer: outside UK nobody really cares about BTCC. For sponsors WTCR and TCR Europe are more interesting.

If that were true how come the WORLDWIDE TV ratings for BTCC are higher?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

If that were true how come the WORLDWIDE TV ratings for BTCC are higher?

WTCR Cumulative TV audience 2020 - 506 million
BTCC Cumulative TV audience 2020 - 500 million

Why shout 'WORLDWIDE'?

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

If that were true how come the WORLDWIDE TV ratings for BTCC are higher?

Are they? Last time I saw BTCC TV figures it was for 'global reach' or some such nonsense. Roughly translated it was the number of people who had access to a TV channel that showed BTCC and therefore could watch it. That's very different from the number who actually did watch it.

[thetool]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

WTCR Cumulative TV audience 2020 - 506 million
BTCC Cumulative TV audience 2020 - 500 million

Why shout 'WORLDWIDE'?

You're both fools if you believe either of those figures.

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

WTCR Cumulative TV audience 2020 - 506 million
BTCC Cumulative TV audience 2020 - 500 million:

To be fair, there's zero difference in that.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by thetool

You're both fools if you believe either of those figures.

Well - that's what promoters of each series claim is their reach!

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Evantra

To be fair, there's zero difference in that.

Agreed - definitely not enough to claim BTCC is higher than WTCR for certain.....

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by redshoes

Are they? Last time I saw BTCC TV figures it was for 'global reach' or some such nonsense. Roughly translated it was the number of people who had access to a TV channel that showed BTCC and therefore could watch it. That's very different from the number who actually did watch it.

Lately - the BTCC figure is based on the number of subscribers to a motorsport streaming service. The number who actually watch BTCC will be a lot lower - so it won't be mentioned in promotional material.

[thetool]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Well - that's what promoters of each series claim is their reach!

"Reach" is a completely useless metric. For example, any series, such as the Blancpain GT series, that stream on Youtube could claim their reach is 4.66 billion, i.e. the number of people with internet access (of course you'd have to minus of a small amount for territories where Youtube access is restricted).

[AnnoyedMoose]

BTCC were claiming an ITV audience of 25 million four years ago. That's obviously not reached in the same way as mainstream viewing figures as it would be the most watched TV show in the UK. Presumably they're adding up total views which obviously counts the same people over and over.

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by AnnoyedMoose

BTCC were claiming an ITV audience of 25 million four years ago. That's obviously not reached in the same way as mainstream viewing figures as it would be the most watched TV show in the UK. Presumably they're adding up total views which obviously counts the same people over and over.

the figure is for a whole season not per race

[BobJones]

Colin Turkington has scheduled a YouTube live stream for 7.30 pm on 3rd February. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q94tZGUF1B8

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by AnnoyedMoose

BTCC were claiming an ITV audience of 25 million four years ago. That's obviously not reached in the same way as mainstream viewing figures as it would be the most watched TV show in the UK. Presumably they're adding up total views which obviously counts the same people over and over.

They've dropped that to 19 million recently.