[BTCC] Oulton Park, 17/18 June 2023, Rounds 13/14/15

[Jon411]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I'm sorry, several posters have mentioned some kind of change to the BMW start restrictions, has there been some kind of rule alteration for them?

Before Thruxton the BMW received a slightly updated start map/ start line boost figure to even out the second phase of longer start runs at places like Thruxton. I can't find the article now, but it was mentioned on Autosport in the same article that mentioned the boost increase for the M-Sport engine pre-Thruxton.


Comparing the starts from Snetteron, Thruxton and Oulton, you can see the BMW is a little more responsive off the line than it has been for a while but as Mike Harte said above, supposedly it's just on the start that the changes were made.

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by Jon411

Before Thruxton the BMW received a slightly updated start map/ start line boost figure to even out the second phase of longer start runs at places like Thruxton. I can't find the article now, but it was mentioned on Autosport in the same article that mentioned the boost increase for the M-Sport engine pre-Thruxton.


Comparing the starts from Snetteron, Thruxton and Oulton, you can see the BMW is a little more responsive off the line than it has been for a while but as Mike Harte said above, supposedly it's just on the start that the changes were made.

Thanks for the info, of all the performance degrading measures given to the BMWs the start line performance was probably the last thing I’d have thought would be eased / reviewed.

[hen henths]

So has Tingram uncovered a secret magic spell that damages rivals' cars without breaking any of the rules?

Seriously though, they were bold and effective moves and I can see Tingram ending the year in the top 2. A second title must be coming to him at some point as well.

[S griffin]

I just think they've built a good solid car this year Toyota, which may not be the fastest, but good enough to challenge the top guys. Tingram still has it, but there is a long way to go. The title fight can change at any moment.

Be interesting to see how long Tingram goes for, obviously he is valued very highly where he is, with or without last year's title

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I just think they've built a good solid car this year Toyota, which may not be the fastest, but good enough to challenge the top guys. Tingram still has it, but there is a long way to go. The title fight can change at any moment.

Be interesting to see how long Tingram goes for, obviously he is valued very highly where he is, with or without last year's title

But he now drives a Hyundai

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

But he now drives a Hyundai

so in essence the much awaited KIA ?

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I just think they've built a good solid car this year Toyota, which may not be the fastest, but good enough to challenge the top guys. Tingram still has it, but there is a long way to go. The title fight can change at any moment.

What has Ingram got to do with a Toyota?

(Blinding knowledge displayed there...)

[Rowbo01]

Originally Posted by Matt K

Yeah, some of his maneouvres have been pretty embarrassing this year.

Jesus.

Can’t win really. The margins are so fine and the cars so close that mistakes happen.

Got caught out overtaking under yellow at round one. Dash failure, flag said green, dash said yellow, dash won in judicial.

Round two, jelly and I were involved in a racing incident, big crash, no one wants to see that, but we are both going for the same gap and the OVERLAP regulations means that technically I was ok. ??*??

Round three, Snett, no issues.

Round four, walloped Pearson in complex, received grid penalty, but I guess 10 years ago you would have deemed that fair if the two names were Plato and Neal…

Round five, brake failure in R1. Total brake failure, what do you want me to do? In race two, when the pack bunched up at Knickerbrook I clipped Jade, no malice, took a warning with pride as it was an innocent manoeuvre.

Some people on here seem hell bent on criticising BTCC teams/drivers/championship whatever the outcome,

Last time out it was because there was “no” overtaking at Thruxton, well we had a puncture R1 and then proceeded to overtake 25 cars during the day and clipped ONE of them, I wonder how many drivers make contact out of 25 moves… probably most of them.

If you don’t like BTCC, I suggest stop watching it?

Thanks to all of those that actively try and support it, my rant it aimed at a few.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Rowbo01

Some people on here seem hell bent on criticising BTCC teams/drivers/championship whatever the outcome,

[...]

If you don’t like BTCC, I suggest stop watching it?

Thanks to all of those that actively try and support it, my rant it aimed at a few.

Unfortunately those few you are ranting at seem to repeat the same criticism endlessly and are unwilling to listen to reason - which is to the detriment of this forum and drags everyone else down.

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by Rowbo01

Thanks to all of those that actively try and support it, my rant it aimed at a few.

Matt’s one of the good guys

[Rowbo01]

Originally Posted by Evantra

Matt’s one of the good guys

That may be, but his comment touched a nerve.

Lol

[Rowbo01]

Originally Posted by Rowbo01

That may be, but his comment touched a nerve.

Lol

Look. I’d love to spend more time on here and try and give an insight into why things happen and try and give you guys to facts to back up the bullshit,

But I spend all my time commercialising the BTCC so I can race in it.

So yea…

[hen henths]

Originally Posted by Rowbo01

Look. I’d love to spend more time on here and try and give an insight into why things happen and try and give you guys to facts to back up the bullshit,

But I spend all my time commercialising the BTCC so I can race in it.

So yea…

It's good to hear your perspective Rowbo. We enjoy watching you race.

[porsche962fan]

Dan do you have access to Sutton's setup sheets ? how the heck can he drive full speed on cold tyres while all the other drivers struggle

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

Dan do you have access to Sutton's setup sheets ? how the heck can he drive full speed on cold tyres while all the other drivers struggle

And so the snarky comments continue. How much use do we think are Vestappens set up sheets to Perez or Schumacher 's to Herbert, Brundle,Barrichello or Massa? It ain't that simple If it was Chilton, Etc would be right with Ingram. Remember it took Sutton and Cammish most of 2022 to get a handle on the Ford - the car that 3 weeks ago needed holding back....

[BTCC frog]

Originally Posted by Rowbo01

That may be, but his comment touched a nerve.

Lol

Feel free to rant as much as you like. As people can say whatever they like on here it is only fair if drivers are allowed to defend themselves if they read it. Jason Plato's occasional rants on this forum were far more aggressive and were fantastic .

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

And so the snarky comments continue. How much use do we think are Vestappens set up sheets to Perez or Schumacher 's to Herbert, Brundle,Barrichello or Massa? It ain't that simple If it was Chilton, Etc would be right with Ingram. Remember it took Sutton and Cammish most of 2022 to get a handle on the Ford - the car that 3 weeks ago needed holding back....

Turkington openly said in interviews that they will move their setup towards Hill's so seem at WSR at least their is setup sharing

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by Rowbo01

Jesus.

Can’t win really. The margins are so fine and the cars so close that mistakes happen.

Got caught out overtaking under yellow at round one. Dash failure, flag said green, dash said yellow, dash won in judicial.

Round two, jelly and I were involved in a racing incident, big crash, no one wants to see that, but we are both going for the same gap and the OVERLAP regulations means that technically I was ok. ??*??

Round three, Snett, no issues.

Round four, walloped Pearson in complex, received grid penalty, but I guess 10 years ago you would have deemed that fair if the two names were Plato and Neal…

Round five, brake failure in R1. Total brake failure, what do you want me to do? In race two, when the pack bunched up at Knickerbrook I clipped Jade, no malice, took a warning with pride as it was an innocent manoeuvre.

Some people on here seem hell bent on criticising BTCC teams/drivers/championship whatever the outcome,

Last time out it was because there was “no” overtaking at Thruxton, well we had a puncture R1 and then proceeded to overtake 25 cars during the day and clipped ONE of them, I wonder how many drivers make contact out of 25 moves… probably most of them.

If you don’t like BTCC, I suggest stop watching it?

Thanks to all of those that actively try and support it, my rant it aimed at a few.

Oh wow, man, calm down. A mere fact that you race in the BTCC doesn't entitle you to get personal in these rants and aiming this at me is hugely, hugely improper. I've been trying to spread some 'positivity' about the BTCC because I love the championship, I love watching it and enjoy that hugely. From the point of view of an observer some of your collisions really were embarrassing because for whatever reason there's been a few of them, which is not a usual view for a driver of your class. But I didn't criticise you personally, just observed the fact it's not the first time such an eyebrow-raising move happened to you. But apart from that you've been doing a great job this year and contacts in touring cars do happen, mistakes do happen as well. Sorry but I feel offended at your rant even if my objective comment touched a nerve.
But will know in the future to avoid your side of the NAPA garage lol, no offense

[Rowbo01]

Originally Posted by Matt K

Oh wow, man, calm down. A mere fact that you race in the BTCC doesn't entitle you to get personal in these rants and aiming this at me is hugely, hugely improper. I've been trying to spread some 'positivity' about the BTCC because I love the championship, I love watching it and enjoy that hugely. From the point of view of an observer some of your collisions really were embarrassing because for whatever reason there's been a few of them, which is not a usual view for a driver of your class. But I didn't criticise you personally, just observed the fact it's not the first time such an eyebrow-raising move happened to you. But apart from that you've been doing a great job this year and contacts in touring cars do happen, mistakes do happen as well. Sorry but I feel offended at your rant even if my objective comment touched a nerve.
But will know in the future to avoid your side of the NAPA garage lol, no offense

I didn’t aim my response at you personally Matt.

However your response did raise my eyebrow to come on here and voice my opinion.

I don’t take anything personally, quite frankly I don’t give a flying one.

However, at points the bullshit needs cutting down, and that’s all my post was aimed to do.

You are correct, I have been involved in more incidents than I would have liked this season, most of that tends to come from being out of place for whatever reason on the grid.

It’s important forums and discussions like this continue, but also they can be damaging, especially when most of us on the grid are working our balls off.

All good.

[Mike Harte]

Rowbo, I think that a lot of the problems that you and some other drivers have in the tourers are that the cars are all fairly easily matched, however the same, in all fairness, doesn't necessarily apply to all the drivers. This then can cause incidents when drivers are out of place and they are trying their best to make up places. And I don't think that a lot of people sat watching the racing on the TV appreciate that.

It has been said on here in the past that many of our fellow competitors appear to get out of the way to let certain drivers through, but that doesn't seem to be the case for all of you who are trying to get up towards the sharp end.

I freely admit that I am of the old school and raced sort of successfully in Special Saloons more than 50 years ago, and we, almost without exception, respected our fellow competitors. We did so because most of us had built our own cars and we had to maintain them out of our pockets too; so damage was something that we avoided at all cost (no pun intended). I was privileged to have raced against some of the best saloon drivers of the time such as the great Gerry Marshall, and we instinctively knew if we were faster than anyone else. Sometimes, for example, on a certain day Gerry was quicker than me, I wouldn't try to hold him back more than I needed to, but conversely the opposite would happen if the tables were turned.

That may have been something to do with what was said to us during the drivers briefing when we were told exactly what was expected of us in our driving etiquette. And we were told what to expect if we didn't follow the CoC's instructions - an immediate black flag, and woe betide you if you ignored that.

Anyway, I wish you the best for the rest of the season.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Matt K

Oh wow, man, calm down. A mere fact that you race in the BTCC doesn't entitle you to get personal in these rants and aiming this at me is hugely, hugely improper. I've been trying to spread some 'positivity' about the BTCC because I love the championship, I love watching it and enjoy that hugely. From the point of view of an observer some of your collisions really were embarrassing because for whatever reason there's been a few of them, which is not a usual view for a driver of your class. But I didn't criticise you personally, just observed the fact it's not the first time such an eyebrow-raising move happened to you. But apart from that you've been doing a great job this year and contacts in touring cars do happen, mistakes do happen as well. Sorry but I feel offended at your rant even if my objective comment touched a nerve.
But will know in the future to avoid your side of the NAPA garage lol, no offense

Embarrassing ? What as embarrassing as crashing into team mates ? Plenty of others well up the embarrassment ladder….

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by Rowbo01

I didn’t aim my response at you personally Matt.

However your response did raise my eyebrow to come on here and voice my opinion.

I don’t take anything personally, quite frankly I don’t give a flying one.

However, at points the bullshit needs cutting down, and that’s all my post was aimed to do.

You are correct, I have been involved in more incidents than I would have liked this season, most of that tends to come from being out of place for whatever reason on the grid.

It’s important forums and discussions like this continue, but also they can be damaging, especially when most of us on the grid are working our balls off.

All good.

Well, I see your point and definitely if there's a lot of scepticism and criticism and banging about the same thing over and over again, with lack of respect and so on, then the best answer is simply "well, stop watching then if everything is wrong for you."
At the same time, that's quite difficult to strike the right balance between being a constant naysayer and someone who keeps telling how everything is perfect just because teams, drivers and the championship in general are working hard.
I'm aware that it takes a lot of hard work to be on the grid, to do the races, to keep the sponsors, to prep the cars and so on and so forth. However, we, racing fans, are in a way 'clients' and have a right to raise some scepticism or criticism when we don't like something, be that someone's manoeuvre on the track, behaviour off the track, the championship's rules, you name it.
If everyone listened to those who keep saying 'you're just a sofa expert, stop commenting because it's hard work and you're not entitled to voice your opinion' then it'd become simply pointless because a grown-up fan recognises strengths and weaknesses of the championship in general as opposed to the psychofan.
But yeah, let me reiterate that again, there's way too much bullshit in the style of "another procession", "another easy win by Sutton", "better give him a title now", "BTCC is boring".
I'm always trying to strike that right balance when writing anything on this forum, even if it doesn't come across as such at times.

Anyway, keep doing what you're doing and good luck for the rest of the season.

[coffinpilot]

Tempers get heated, then calm heads prevail.

For a moment I thought we were going to have to call Creesy in to mediate - he has the time now! (And I hope he kept the trophy!!)

[Rowbo01]

Originally Posted by coffinpilot

Tempers get heated, then calm heads prevail.

For a moment I thought we were going to have to call Creesy in to mediate - he has the time now! (And I hope he kept the trophy!!)

Look it’s all good. We are all here for the same reason, and for sure, followers of the sport should absolutely have a voice.

Just sometimes, we all need to realise it isn’t as easy as it seems and it certainly isn’t black and white

Take care all,

[houston]

Originally Posted by Rowbo01

Look it’s all good. We are all here for the same reason, and for sure, followers of the sport should absolutely have a voice.

Just sometimes, we all need to realise it isn’t as easy as it seems and it certainly isn’t black and white

Take care all,

Respect. Keep doing what you're doing Dan.