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10 Feb 2010, 19:41 (Ref:2630851) | #176 | ||
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http://jalopnik.com/5468819/delta-wi...le-rocket-ship
Article responding to appearance at the Chicago Auto Show. Half the comments to the article and pictures are: "How will it turn?" |
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10 Feb 2010, 19:53 (Ref:2630860) | #177 | |
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eeek
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"Without racing there is no Honda". Soichiro Honda |
10 Feb 2010, 19:54 (Ref:2630862) | #178 | ||
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Finally... One American Open Wheel Series! |
10 Feb 2010, 19:56 (Ref:2630864) | #179 | |||
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Quote:
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10 Feb 2010, 19:57 (Ref:2630867) | #180 | ||
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Swift has said they will rely on their Indianapolis partner for parts fabrication, supply and repair.
Mark One Composites in Indianapolis looks like little more than a body shop with an autoclave (from their website). They presently repair damaged monocoques and attenuators for Series teams. No plans for great expansion have surfaced. All of Swift's well established facitilties are in California. Lola made no announcement of plans to transfer business assets to Indy. This, despite the fact that a business investment team led by Mayor Ballard went to England last November to meet with motorsports manufacturers. They met with Menard and Aston Martin, and also went to Cologne, Germany for further discussions. Lola was not mentioned Dallara has committed to constructing an assembly plant in Indy. The land is directly adjacent to the Speedway. Game over. Last edited by JagtechOhio; 10 Feb 2010 at 20:18. Reason: Two spelling typos corrected. |
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10 Feb 2010, 20:43 (Ref:2630895) | #181 | ||
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It isn't game over by a long shot if the teams disagree, and put their collective foot down.
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The only certainty is that nothing is certain. |
10 Feb 2010, 20:50 (Ref:2630901) | #182 | ||
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10 Feb 2010, 20:54 (Ref:2630905) | #183 | ||
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Keep in mind that Ben Bowlby has a pretty long history as a designer and engineer...He was involved with creating the Lola...I just don't like the concept at all
I just don't think this car is an open wheel car, nor do I think it will turn, either... Almost makes me want to whistle the theme song to "Speed Racer" |
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10 Feb 2010, 20:58 (Ref:2630909) | #184 | |||
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Keep in mind that if the various owners who support this Delta Wing walk, the IRL has few, if any teams left back there to race. Panther already has sent out a formal statement of support, and allegedly Ganassi, Penske, the former team owner TG, and others are supportive of this as well... |
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10 Feb 2010, 21:03 (Ref:2630919) | #185 | ||
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To Purist:
No Sh*t. It was right there in Ganassi's speech last month, I read the last line as a call to arms. Last week Pruett wrote a position piece to clearly express the team owner's sentiment. Panther publicly lauded Pruett's article. "Sorry, it's too late." We're starting on another path. You're with us, or you're against us. That's what the handwriting has been saying to me. I'm not much one for watching cartoons. |
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10 Feb 2010, 21:09 (Ref:2630928) | #186 | |||
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The first shot...as in across the IRL's bow |
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Finally... One American Open Wheel Series! |
10 Feb 2010, 21:24 (Ref:2630935) | #187 | |||
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10 Feb 2010, 21:24 (Ref:2630936) | #188 | ||
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The first shot. Bingo.
Thank the Lord it is such a pig, IICS won't have to listen to the public scream as they congenially dismiss the Delta concept. Just like always, the real battles will be waged behind closed doors. I asked Dan Partel if Bowlby had used the 2012 F1 specs as a basis for his design. I was thinking that if the Delta was too radical for the IICS, perhaps he could adapt it to present as a submission for that use. Partel said no. He wasn't kidding about that. Neither Bowlby, nor the owners who have voiced support for him, have a fallback plan. They will jump ship, or they will blast off for parts unknown in the Delta. And these are supposed to be smart men. |
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10 Feb 2010, 21:27 (Ref:2630940) | #189 | |||
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I took it as actually construccting the cars here...from tubs and CF up... Indy has so many motorsports industry suppliers, jobbers, etc., that Dallara would have no probalen building cars here, and if it is part of the Speedway redevelopment project south of the track, the local and state govts. will give them big tax incentives to locate here. |
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10 Feb 2010, 21:29 (Ref:2630942) | #190 | ||
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ger, it's not about race cars. I did exactly what you just described with new Tiga 82CA Can Am car.
It's about real estate sale, tax revenues, construction jobs, satellite businesses, design and manufacturing jobs, plant equipment sales, and the ongoing urban redevelopment of Speedway, Indiana. On the side lawn of the racetrack. Right where the Dallara plant will be built. |
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10 Feb 2010, 21:45 (Ref:2630963) | #191 | ||
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Tim,
I know, Swift made sure to pay lip service to the Indy production involvement. Then I went to Mark One Composite's web site. I got another pint of beer to bet you they never built a CF tub in their lives. Why would Swift move? They have a complete design, testing and manufacturing facility. That will work great, it just doesn't grease any wheels in Indy. Mayor Ballard is up for re-election in 2011. The IMS revenues are decreasing, the IICS continues to operate at least $20M in the red. Lola makes great race cars. I'll love watching them when the vintage races come around. Dallara can also build and sell the Topolino they just introduced here, and teams can send their young drivers across the street to pick out their cheap new ladder series chassis. Or they can also add a road going version of the X-Bow they build now. More jobs. More plant expansion. Mr. Dalara and designer Andre Toso have already laid out the plan. Dallara said the propsect was first discussed in 2002. If the Series splits and dissolves, none of it will come to pass. And NO ONE wants to stop and think about how bad 2010 was already shaping up to be. Now you have an idea of what I have been doing for six months. And why I have been asking questions, formulating answers and shooting my mouth off, hoping to get some response from insiders. I haven't been able to get through. Yet. |
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10 Feb 2010, 21:49 (Ref:2630968) | #192 | ||||
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Quote:
Putting that aside for a second, let's go back to the owners of Delta Wing and the car: Quote:
In that list of owners there's no Haas, no Foyt, no Coyne, no Beck. The absence of the last three don't surprise me, the first one does. No (Bobby) Rahal, although I don't think he counts anymore. Last edited by Flyin Ryan; 10 Feb 2010 at 22:00. |
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10 Feb 2010, 22:03 (Ref:2630981) | #193 | ||
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Ryan. thanks for that. It's an interesting insight that I hadn't gotten to yet, about using such an extreme re-design as an excuse to break away.
The point I would make to you is that when you look at all the owners you mentioned, the majority don't even have enough funding to run a single car for the full 2010 season. Ganassi, Andretti and Penske are the power brokers: the rest are just the flock. Chip has already, in my opinion, made his intentions clear. Barnes has supported him publicly. Transporters load for Barber testing in 11 days. There is no clear indication that Wiggins, Bachelart, Coyne, Haas, Beck or Rahal will be making the trip. No idea where Kalkoven stands, but no firm committments are in place. |
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10 Feb 2010, 22:08 (Ref:2630989) | #194 | |
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Go the Delta Wing!
What's the aerodynamics when that thing gets sideways? I notice they revised the price up to $600K with engine |
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Wolverines! |
10 Feb 2010, 22:10 (Ref:2630990) | #195 | ||
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Hang on, this thing is just a sidecar with a seat! And notice the complete lack of side-impact protection, no wheels, no side-pods, no nothing inbetween the driver and a wall/car. HOW DOES THIS DAMN THING TURN SOMEBODY TELL ME!
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10 Feb 2010, 22:13 (Ref:2630996) | #196 | ||
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Oh god, its made from Poly-ethene... I would not go near that if I were a driver who wanted to stay, y'know.. alive.
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'My lovely horse, running through the fields! Where are you going, with your fetlocks blowing in the wind?' |
10 Feb 2010, 22:14 (Ref:2630997) | #197 | |||
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The money benefit from racing has gone down, the car has to go down as well for the sport to survive. I co-designed a sportscar for a friend. The carbonfibre roller is $225k. The tubeframe roller is $97k. 57% reduction in cost, and that's not even accounting for there being much fewer people out in the real world that are knowledge capable of working on carbonfibre versus a tubeframe (unless you work on military aircraft). Common available racing engines have to be used, not some specialized turbocharged 4-cylinder engine that no automaker outside of one maybe two is willing to manufacture. At the Night Before the 500 you can see big horsepower producing engines that fit into a car smaller than an Indycar and there are 6 or so engines on the entry list. No, the cars won't be as technologically advanced or approaching F1 but who the f*ck cares? However, everytime I make this argument I got shouted down on the internet as a dumbass redneck that didn't want furriners to win Indy. So I've tired of it and am not going to argue again. 1930s satirist H.L. Mencken: "Democracy is the theory the common man knows what he wants and he deserves to get it good and hard." The car costs have to be aligned with the purse money and sponsorship on offer in order to have a successful series. Ride buying will alleviate it for a couple years but sooner or later things balance out and it brings down everyone, which it has as you describe in your post. Last edited by Flyin Ryan; 10 Feb 2010 at 22:20. |
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10 Feb 2010, 22:16 (Ref:2630998) | #198 | ||
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Well. if it's $600K with what ever power plant they selected already installed, maybe not so bad.
Of course the IICS hasn't set the engine spec yet, either. If it's a $600K price tag for a roller, then Ryan's idea looks even more valid. And only three teams in the paddock will be able to buy them. |
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10 Feb 2010, 22:17 (Ref:2631002) | #199 | ||
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I think the tail fin turns to act like a rudder
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It's time to switch to Whiskey, we've been drinking Beer all night - Corb Lund |
10 Feb 2010, 22:27 (Ref:2631010) | #200 | ||
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Ryan. I feel you, bro. And I just laughed my *ss off at that quote.
The engine spec was at Long Beach in 2006. It was under the hood of Rhyss Millen's Formula Drift car. GM Ecotech 2.2 liter turbo, short stroked with displacement down to 2.0. At least 500 HP They could set up an engine summit in Indy, and invite any independant builder to run what they brung on a dyno. 1.8 or 2.0 Audi, Mazda MRR-R, ARE PO7, GM Ecotec 2.2, Ford Duratec 2.3 All are currently raced. Ford Ecoboost and the new BMW turbo are production engines that would fit the formula. Make it 2.4 liters or less, and.... Gentlemen, start your engines. |
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