USCC (leave your axe outside)

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by fanta4

Really? Was it the Racer article give that away? lol.

Hmm, and yet accusations of a plagiaristic bent.








L.P.

[Simmi]

I figure he needed an neutral platform to sound off from which SPEED isn't. And if I were in his position I'd certainly be trying to align myself with Racer.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by fanta4

I think someone else wrote it and attached his name to it. Much different than the spin he writes for Speed. It was refreshing though.

I don't read everything he writes, but the Racer article is listed as an "opinion" piece. I am assuming most of his writing for Speed is reporting and not opinion. Maybe that is the difference?

Richard

[Jonerz]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I don't read everything he writes, but the Racer article is listed as an "opinion" piece. I am assuming most of his writing for Speed is reporting and not opinion. Maybe that is the difference?

Richard

I agree. John's articles on SPEED.com absolutely aren't spin. They are race reports, or rumor, speculation, or political reports relevant to sports car racing. Typically he only produces those articles when there is something concrete about them.

We all know JD has his biases, the WEC is the greatest thing in the world, GT3 is infallible, but he generally keeps that out of his reporting.

Chris

[Duff_44]

OK, this is a "thinking out loud" type post.

[thinkoutloud]
I was just doing some thinking about what the 2014 schedule might look like. Feel free to analyze/criticize/hurl insults (board rules take prevalence) if you like.

Here's the 17 venues that either/both the ALMS or G/A Rolex Series will run in 2013:
Daytona, Austin, Sebring, Barber, Long Beach, Road Atlanta, Laguna Seca, Detroit, Mid-Ohio, Watkins Glen, Lime Rock, Mosport, Indianapolis, Road America, Kansas, Baltimore, VIR

1) Five of these tracks are owned or leased by ISC or PMG/some Panoz entity:
Daytona
Sebring
Watkins Glen
Road Atlanta
Kansas
(keep in mind Mosport was sold Ron Fellows-led Canadian Motorsport Ventures in 2011)

2) Four tracks (in addition to Road Atlanta, above) will host both series in 2013:
Austin
Lime Rock
Road America
Laguna Seca

3) Two tracks (in addition to Daytona, Watkins Glen, Kansas, Road America) will host either a NASCAR Sprint Cup or Nationwide series race in 2013:
Indianapolis (both in July)
Mid-Ohio (NW in August)

That's a total of 11. I think those would be the logical basis for a new series schedule, emphasizing prior popular venues and those affiliated with NASCAR which, let's face it, will have some influence in the merged series. That leaves the following:

Barber, Long Beach, Detroit, Mosport, Baltimore, VIR

Now, here's the sticky part: Does USCR continue a relationship with Indycar - with which four of the above would be paired - or do they break that relationship and do their own thing? If the Indycar tie-ins are kept, then I would guess Mosport and VIR would have little-to-no chance of continuing. If they deliberately sever Indycar ties... then maybe Mosport and VIR have a shot.

I personally would take the 11 outlined above, add Mosport, and do something like this (all dates Saturday of that weekend):

1/25 Daytona
3/15 Sebring
4/19 Kansas (with NASCAR)
5/17 Laguna Seca
7/5 Lime Rock
7/12 Watkins Glen (moved back 2 weeks to avoid LM car shipping/travel conflict)
7/26 Indianpolis (with NASCAR)
8/9 Road America
8/23 Mid-Ohio
9/6 Mosport
9/20 Austin (with WEC)
10/11 Road Atlanta (Petit Le Mans)

Nothing against Barber or VIR. You could in theory add both pretty easily (Barber 4/5 with Indycar, VIR 10/4 and push Petit back one or two weeks) if you wanted 14 races. On the other hand... I hate street circuits, so any excuse to ditch them is fine with me.

I don't see them doing any more than 12 races. I'm just hoping that they don't poo on a more classic permanent venue for a street circuit.
[/thinkoutloud]

[skycafe]

oh boy Kansas. (note: I have nothing against the state, in fact seeing the great plains , the bread basket of the country is an amazing experience, but it does lack sportscar tradition)

I don't think you can move Watkins Glen around, there is tradition (which may count for nothing these days) and isn't Nascar on the schedule there too?

Going to COTA on the same weekend as WEC to run, sorry, a product that doesn't begin to match the performance or glamor of the WEC cars seems like it would be a bad move.

[TheMightyM]

Couple of points: There's absolutely no reason for USCR to run with NASCAR at Kansas or anywhere else. The two audiences just don't overlap very much. Note that Grand Am is not running with NASCAR at Kansas this year. (The Grand Am date is in August, NASCAR is in Kansas City in April and October.) Not sure that Kansas ranks in the top 10 to 12 places that USCR needs to hold a race in 2014.

Speaking which, GA is down to one race at Watkins Glen this year; it's the 6 hour and is in June. The NASCAR race at Watkins Glen is in August.

There's no reason to share a weekend with IndyCar except at select street circuits where's the only way to get into a major market (Long Beach, maybe Detroit — but only if IndyCar isn't doing a doubleheader there in 2014, maybe Baltimore.)

[Purist]

I don't see Kansas happening, especially not on a NASCAR weekend; the infield course would take away too many RV parking spaces. In addition, that would be a lot of cars in the paddock, as well as on the track. I might add that the opening turn coming off the tri-oval and into the infield just seems like it could be a disaster waiting to happen with a bunched field.

Indianapolis would face many of the same issues as Kansas, except, perhaps, for the RV parking.

I think Kansas, and any other rovals apart from Daytona, would seem much more likely to be part of the North American DTM calendar.

I would imagine that Austin will take the Spring date like GA did this year.

If Le Mans goes back to its usual date, Watkins Glen should work just fine being on the first full weekend of July.

I've already said all too many times that there aren't many, if any, real options to replace Michigan (Detroit), Southern California (Long Beach), or the Mid Atlantic (Baltimore). I certainly think there is quite a realistic chance that the first two will stick around. (Keep in mind that they're switching to the long course at Belle Isle this year, which cuts down on the number of corners, adds some lap length, and adds another rather long straight.)

My guess at a more reasonable, 12-round calendar:
1. Daytona 24 Hours
2. Austin 3 Hours
3. Sebring 12 Hours
4. Long Beach 2 Hours*
5. Laguna Seca 2 Hours, 45 Minutes
6. Belle Isle 2 Hours
7. Watkins Glen 6 Hours
8. Mosport Park 2 Hours, 45 Minutes
9. Mid Ohio 2 Hours, 45 Minutes
10. Road America 4 Hours
11. VIRginia 2 Hours, 45 Minutes
12. Road Atlanta 10 Hours

As to the ISC matter, the above schedule is a full third ISC venues, with Watkins Glen and Daytona, as well as the new acquisitions of Road Atlanta and the Sebring event lease.

Personally, I know what I want from a unified North American Sportscar schedule, and I'm not going to back down from saying it, even though it won't happen in 2014, or necessarily in the particularly foreseeable future for that matter. (I will be a tad annoyed, to say the least, if it takes a matter of decades, however.)
1. Daytona 24 Hours
2. Austin 3 Hours
3. Sebring 12 Hours
4. Long Beach 2 Hours*
5. Laguna Seca 4 Hours
6. Lime Rock (Memorial Day)*
7. Belle Isle 2 Hours
8. Watkins Glen 6 Hours (Independence Day)
9. Mosport Park 2 Hours, 45 Minutes
10. Mont Tremblant 4 Hours
11. Mid Ohio 2 Hours, 45 Minutes
12. Road America 500 Miles
13. Baltimore 2 Hours (Labor Day)*
14. Virginia Int'l 500 Miles
15. Road Atlanta 10 Hours

The *'s on both schedules signify the venues that are most likely to need a Proto/GT split for the weekend's event.

The 2014 season is a STARTING POINT, and one from which I hope, and to an extent, demand, to see subsequent improvement. I will continue to communicate that desire and expectation, and there is nothing wrong with that. Neither is there anything particularly unreasonable with wanting to see growth once this entity has gotten somewhat settled.

(Trust me, if I was going for a fantasy schedule, I would have included Cleveland and Seattle Int'l Raceway on there.)

[HORNDAWG]

12 races in '14

Daytona (Jan.)
Barber (Feb.)
Sebring (Mar.)
COTA (April)
Laguna Seca (May)
Road America (May 31)
Mid Ohio (July 4th)
Belle Isle (July)
Mosport (Aug.)
Watkins Glen (Sept)
VIR (Sept./Oct.)
Road Atlanta-PLM (Oct.)

If it is 10 I would think Barber & VIR get dropped







L.P.

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by TheMightyM

Couple of points: There's absolutely no reason for USCR to run with NASCAR at Kansas or anywhere else. The two audiences just don't overlap very much. Note that Grand Am is not running with NASCAR at Kansas this year. (The Grand Am date is in August, NASCAR is in Kansas City in April and October.) Not sure that Kansas ranks in the top 10 to 12 places that USCR needs to hold a race in 2014.

Speaking which, GA is down to one race at Watkins Glen this year; it's the 6 hour and is in June. The NASCAR race at Watkins Glen is in August.

There's no reason to share a weekend with IndyCar except at select street circuits where's the only way to get into a major market (Long Beach, maybe Detroit — but only if IndyCar isn't doing a doubleheader there in 2014, maybe Baltimore.)

Thanks, I didn't know that about Watkins Glen as I don't follow Nascar or Grand Am. I agree about the audience.

[Salamus]

Another point of interest is how many cars a track can support. With this merger, car counts will surely go up and some of these smaller tracks will need to separate protos and GTs. This could affect what tracks they go to if they don't want to split the classes.

I say:
Daytona 24
Sebring 12
Road America
Mosport
Road Atlanta
COTA
Laguna Seca
Watkins Glen
Virginia
Mid-Ohio

[Mechanic Z]

Team PTG is closing it's doors, according to Racer.com.

[Breitling24]

Originally Posted by Mechanic Z

Team PTG is closing it's doors, according to Racer.com.

They were still open?

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Breitling24

They were still open?

L.P.

[wdave0]

Been lurking for a while and am bursting to chime in.

The ten percent overlap in fan base is significant since GA has been desperately trying to get butts in the seats for years - even to the point of nearly giving away Sat. night grandstand tickets at Daytona. Surely that 10% overlap represents a larger percentage of GA fans than of ALMS. So what's happened - the properties exchanged in the "merger" are minor compared to the number of ALMS fans bought. Will they be kept? I hope so as I'm one. I don't believe killing ALMS was the driver - fans were.

Now with the same Continentals as the DP's the PCs are faster than they were. They were already faster than DPs at the road courses both ran on. So the DP's have to get faster just to keep up with the PCs, much less the P2s. Speed costs money - how much faster will the "affordable" cars be able to get reasonably? Say goodbye to exciting LeMans legal P2s.

As for AUDI, all it would take would be to get Grand Am to approve a version of their V8 and stick it in a Riley with a nifty grille decal and paint job to emulate the R8 and PRESTO! an AUDI running competitively in the "top" class of American road racing!!

Wondering about Sebring and Petit, it seems to me that it is going to be very expensive to put lights all around, be much cheaper to shorten them to 2.75 hr. "enduros".

Last question - how difficult is it going to LeMans 24 from USA without any French??

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by wdave0

Wondering about Sebring and Petit, it seems to me that it is going to be very expensive to put lights all around, be much cheaper to shorten them to 2.75 hr. "enduros".

Wrong, it'll be much cheaper to give the DPs proper headlights and keep running the races as before. SEBRING MUST STAY AT 12 HOURS.

[wdave0]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

Wrong, it'll be much cheaper to give the DPs proper headlights and keep running the races as before. SEBRING MUST STAY AT 12 HOURS.

I would agree but DPs haven't actually raced in the dark for years, the boys tell me that headlights aren't even necessary at Daytona. So who's running the show? I may be a general optimist but I am not trusting of Grand Sham to serve my fan interests!

[wdave0]

Actually, no prob, Sebring 12hr - 7 to 7

[TheMightyM]

Originally Posted by wdave0

I would agree but DPs haven't actually raced in the dark for years, the boys tell me that headlights aren't even necessary at Daytona. So who's running the show? I may be a general optimist but I am not trusting of Grand Sham to serve my fan interests!

There are things you should be worried about but that's not one of them. The cost of upgrading the headlights of DPs is pretty trivial.

Who's running the show? ALMS' Scott Atherton and Scot Elkin both hold very senior positions in the merged series. They certainly understand the importance of the 12 Hours of Sebring. I have no doubt that the people of the GA side of the equation do to.

We also have direct evidence that the traditional races will continue as before at the tracks without lights. After all, why would USCR renew the license for the Petite Le Mans name if they weren't planning on running a long endurance race there?

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by TheMightyM

There are things you should be worried about but that's not one of them. The cost of upgrading the headlights of DPs is pretty trivial.

Who's running the show? ALMS' Scott Atherton and Scot Elkin both hold very senior positions in the merged series. They certainly understand the importance of the 12 Hours of Sebring. I have no doubt that the people of the GA side of the equation do to.

We also have direct evidence that the traditional races will continue as before at the tracks without lights. After all, why would USCR renew the license for the Petite Le Mans name if they weren't planning on running a long endurance race there?

Exactly. The new series is not sanctioned by Grand-Am, it is sanctioned by IMSA, so the racing side of things will continue to be run, in a large proportion, in the same way that the ALMS has been run.

[Speed-King]

Not to mention that GA used to run night races not too long ago on places other than Daytona - Miller comes to mind, IIRC the 1000k races always ended in the dark there.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by wdave0

Been lurking for a while and am bursting to chime in.

The ten percent overlap in fan base is significant since GA has been desperately trying to get butts in the seats for years - even to the point of nearly giving away Sat. night grandstand tickets at Daytona. Surely that 10% overlap represents a larger percentage of GA fans than of ALMS. So what's happened - the properties exchanged in the "merger" are minor compared to the number of ALMS fans bought. Will they be kept? I hope so as I'm one. I don't believe killing ALMS was the driver - fans were.

Now with the same Continentals as the DP's the PCs are faster than they were. They were already faster than DPs at the road courses both ran on. So the DP's have to get faster just to keep up with the PCs, much less the P2s. Speed costs money - how much faster will the "affordable" cars be able to get reasonably? Say goodbye to exciting LeMans legal P2s.

As for AUDI, all it would take would be to get Grand Am to approve a version of their V8 and stick it in a Riley with a nifty grille decal and paint job to emulate the R8 and PRESTO! an AUDI running competitively in the "top" class of American road racing!!

Wondering about Sebring and Petit, it seems to me that it is going to be very expensive to put lights all around, be much cheaper to shorten them to 2.75 hr. "enduros".

Last question - how difficult is it going to LeMans 24 from USA without any French??

Welcome to the forum wdaveO!

You are right of course, it is going to be very difficult to get the top prototype class correct. It will be very interesting to see how it is done, because the cars are going to have to change in some way. Will most of the modification be on the DP's? or split between the DP's, P2's and DW's? Either way it is going to cost money and I wonder if the series will "help" the teams in this regard.

[TheMightyM]

Gordon Kirby's latest column features comments by Jim McGee in response to Chip Ganassi's comments about the future of IndyCar.

McGee believes the Unified SportsCar Racing series may result in the likes of Ganassi, Penske and Andretti Autosports departing IndyCar in the next few years for sports car racing.

"I can't see Chip, Roger or Michael sticking around IndyCar much longer because they're running a business. You can't blame them if they left because racing is not a sport anymore. It's a business and you go where ever the business is. They've got to do what's best for business.

"I think Chip and Roger will go to sports cars. Chip's already there in the Grand-Am and I'm sure he'll continue in the unified sports car series next year. Roger's been there before in both the ALMS and the Grand-Am, and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him go sports car racing. That's where he started after all. He loves sports cars and a strong, unified sports car series is bound to have a lot of attraction for him. Roger will always be at Indianapolis but I don't think the rest of the series interests him too much anymore."

[Purist]

Welcome, Dave. It's always good to add another insightful voice to the conversation.

There's no need to mess with the durations at Sebring and Road Atlanta. GA ran into Darkness at Miller, which has minimal lighting.

I honestly think Audi would get more recognition running a GTE R8 than plunking one of their de-tuned, de-turbo'd V8s into a DP.

I suspect that the Continental DP tire is rather conservative, and could be worth a fair amount of time on its own. That would be the single easiest adjustment to get DPs and P2s closer to being equal.

Salamus, I think most of us are aware of the car count issue. I'd say that tracks of 3.0 miles or more are probably good to go for the full field.

Tracks that fit the above criterion are:
1. Miller (long)- 4.486 miles
2. Road America- 4.048 miles
3. Sebring- 3.700 miles
4. Daytona- 3.560 miles
5. Austin- 3.427 miles
6. Watkins Glen (long)- 3.400 miles
7. VIRginia- 3.270 miles
8. Calabogie- 3.050 miles
9. Miller (short)- 3.048 miles
10. Brainerd- 3.000 miles

Calabogie would need media and spectator facilities. The old Brainerd circuit is still active, but would need some key updates, particularly to the run-offs at Turns 1, 2, 3, and 9. Miller just wasn't conducive to very good racing it seemed, and both ALMS and GA left it.

Tracks under 2.0 miles would almost certainly need to have split Proto/GT races.

Relevant (or potentially relevant) tracks that fit this criterion are:
1. Lime Rock- 1.500 miles
2. Houston- 1.700 miles
3. St. Petersburg- 1.800 miles
4. Portland- 1.964 miles
5. Long Beach- 1.968 miles

It's that mid-range where things get tricky. Generally, the faster, more open circuits seem more apt to be able to handle the full grid. The permanent road course in this bracket that gives me the most concern is Barber, where you repeatedly have places where it's not recommened to go through in a manner other than single file. Through a lot of the quick corners, you really need the whole width of the road, or you'll be off the road.

Here are the intermediate tracks of note:
1. Baltimore- 2.040 miles*
2. Laguna Seca- 2.238 miles
3. Seattle- 2.250 miles
4. Thunderbolt- 2.250 miles
5. Mid Ohio- 2.258 miles
6. Barber- 2.300 miles*
7. Kansas- 2.370 miles
8. Belle Isle (long)- 2.385 miles
9. Watkins Glen (short)- 2.450 miles
10. Mosport Park- 2.459 miles
11. Mexico City (short)- 2.500 miles
12. Sears Point- 2.520 miles
13. Indianapolis- 2.534miles
14. Road Atlanta- 2.540 miles
15. Mont Tremblant- 2.650 miles
16. Montreal- 2.709 miles
17. Mexico City (long)- 2.747 miles
18. Fontana- 2.880 miles

If you've seen my previous posts, you know what the * means. And yes, I know that Seattle Int'l Raceway would need some real updates all over the place to get to a full Grade 2 rating. I also know about the access issues and absent media infrastructure at Mont Tremblant; just chill. Fontana is a motorcycle circuit, which wouldn't be that good for the racing in my estimation, and would be a nightmare to police track boundaries through the infield with a full grid of Protos and GTs out there.

[TheMightyM]

Originally Posted by Purist

Salamus, I think most of us are aware of the car count issue. I'd say that tracks of 3.0 miles or more are probably good to go for the full field.

Purist, I have to ask what you're assuming the full field next year will come to?