Delta Wing Discussion ONLY

[joeb]

Just looking at the Autosport story and the Speed story and there appears to be some conflicting info on what the base tub will be for the coupe DW.

Speed says it will still be based on the AMR tub, while the Autosport story says it is a new tub.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by joeb

Quit asking logical questions.

Maybe Elan actually wants to be an engine supplier for the 2014 LMP1 regs, but your guess is as good as mine.

I'm really confused... that article started out like we all know what is going on but we don't. Marshall didn't ask important questions like, "Hey, where's Ben, Dan, and Duncan?" or "Why?".

[ger80]

Originally Posted by joeb

Just looking at the Autosport story and the Speed story and there appears to be some conflicting info on what the base tub will be for the coupe DW.

Speed says it will still be based on the AMR tub, while the Autosport story says it is a new tub.

So let them build a LMP around that tub then

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by joeb

Speed says it will still be based on the AMR tub, while the Autosport story says it is a new tub.

Either way it's still a new tub right? Just a bit of extra context from Speed.

[Maelochs]

Probably the new tub is based on the AR One tub, because that tub is a proven, crash-tested design.

As far as I know there are no AMR-One tubs left, so the new tub might be based on the AMR-One but with minor adjustments to hang the different bits?

[HJJ]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

As far as I know there are no AMR-One tubs left, so the new tub might be based on the AMR-One but with minor adjustments to hang the different bits?

There is one AMR-One tub left and it was at elan in September. I know that Dr. P wants to use his patented REAMS/carbon fiber process in the construction of the new tubs.

[skycafe]

I was thinking they copied the AMR1 tub to be able to use all existing tooling to continue on without having major design time. Wouldn't you have to pay royalty to the AMR1 design team (their design is becoming successful over time). If you were using the REAMS, I would think you would have to be tested again because of material/process change? But, if it only racing here do you need to crash test it?

Nothing about the deltawing project is ever going to fit in a box is it?

[Adam43]

A true prototype!

[deltawing]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

..... Marshall didn't ask important questions like, "Hey, where's Ben, Dan, and Duncan?" or "Why?".

I am pretty sure he did, but from the other side he heard "If you want an interview, dont ask me those questions"

[Great Dane]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

I'm really confused... that article started out like we all know what is going on but we don't. Marshall didn't ask important questions like, "Hey, where's Ben, Dan, and Duncan?" or "Why?".

MONEY, I think

[optica]

My main interest with the DeltaWing was that it achieved what it did with only 300BHP so where the car is going now seems as though it might betray the original concept. I was fascinated to see just how far its potential with the limited power output might evolve so I'm hoping they keep it pegged at 300 to maintain its efficiency advantages. I find it difficult to believe that Ben Bowlby won't be having some influence on the car's future development whoever controls the purse strings.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by optica

My main interest with the DeltaWing was that it achieved what it did with only 300BHP so where the car is going now seems as though it might betray the original concept. I was fascinated to see just how far its potential with the limited power output might evolve so I'm hoping they keep it pegged at 300 to maintain its efficiency advantages. I find it difficult to believe that Ben Bowlby won't be having some influence on the car's future development whoever controls the purse strings.

I think what makes the D-Wing story so remarkable, is it started out as a potential alternative to the Dallara IR03/05, which was getting very long in the tooth and ended up competing in Le Mans last year.

[GTfour]

I read they'll also be building a closed version of the Deltawing. I can't wait to see how cool that's gonna look.

[knighty]

Originally Posted by optica

My main interest with the DeltaWing was that it achieved what it did with only 300BHP so where the car is going now seems as though it might betray the original concept. I was fascinated to see just how far its potential with the limited power output might evolve so I'm hoping they keep it pegged at 300 to maintain its efficiency advantages. I find it difficult to believe that Ben Bowlby won't be having some influence on the car's future development whoever controls the purse strings.

in a way yes its impressive.......a bit like world rally cars only had "300bhp".......where in reality they actually had 360bhp and over 600NM or torque from boost-unlimited engines, but did have a 34mm restrictor!!.....the torque figure for the DW Nissan would have been substantial considering its turbocharged nature.......I'm keen to know more about the details of the replacement mazda engine, because if its 300bhp and normally aspirated engine, it will perform quite differently with half the torque value of a turbo engine........certainly will be interesting to watch though.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by knighty

in a way yes its impressive.......a bit like world rally cars only had "300bhp".......where in reality they actually had 360bhp and over 600NM or torque from boost-unlimited engines, but did have a 34mm restrictor!!.....the torque figure for the DW Nissan would have been substantial considering its turbocharged nature.......I'm keen to know more about the details of the replacement mazda engine, because if its 300bhp and normally aspirated engine, it will perform quite differently with half the torque value of a turbo engine........certainly will be interesting to watch though.

The new mazda engine is going to be turbo charged. From the Speed article:

Based off of the 2.0-liter Mazda MZR engine found in the Van Diemen Elan USF2000 chassis, the new mill is slightly smaller at 1.9 liters, and adds both direct fuel-injection and a twin turbo system to double the 4-cylinder, twin-cam’s output.

Rated at 170hp in the USF2000 car, the DeltaWing unit, which replaces the 1.6-liter RML-designed Nissan engine that propelled the car in 2012, is currently achieving 345hp on the dyno, with 350 lf-ft. of torque at 6500rpms. That's an increase of almost 50hp over the Nissan, further improving the car's power-to-weight ratio.

“We’re about 15 pounds lighter than the Nissan engine right now and two inches shorter than the stock Mazda,” Panoz continued. “This engine is being developed for P1 and P2; we’re doing a batch of 40 engines at the moment. We liked what we saw with the bottom end of the one Mazda engine, and the top end of another Mazda engine, so we’re putting them together with the new billet block.”

Anybody want to take a guess as to why they are making 40 of these engines?

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by joeb

Anybody want to take a guess as to why they are making 40 of these engines?

Because they pop easily...?

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by joeb

The new mazda engine is going to be turbo charged. From the Speed article:



Anybody want to take a guess as to why they are making 40 of these engines?

Maybe there is another series planning on using them in the near future. *cough* Indy Lights*cough*

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by ptclaus98

Maybe there is another series planning on using them in the near future. *cough* Indy Lights*cough*

That would be interesting.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

Because they pop easily...?

I didn't want to go there......

Originally Posted by ptclaus98

Maybe there is another series planning on using them in the near future. *cough* Indy Lights*cough*

Would be great to see, that way the engine will get the development it deserves, which can only benefit the DW project.

[HJJ]

Michelin gone. Bridgestone/Firestone now the likely tire supplier. Story over at Speed.

Indy Lights indeed.

[Juntos]

Will it be available for sale? I'm pretty sure this is how every murder mystery begins.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by HJJ

Michelin gone. Bridgestone/Firestone now the likely tire supplier. Story over at Speed.

Indy Lights indeed.

Here's the link to that Speed article.

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...eltawing-exit/

[IndyDonut]

On the carbon fiber engine thing, here's some links to read up on:
http://www.automobilemag.com/green/n...tty_holtzberg/
http://blog.caranddriver.com/is-this...-engine-block/
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...er-engine.html
Matti Holtzberg's been at it for decades now, if anybody can build a race-ready carbon-fibre block engine, it's him.

[knighty]

Originally Posted by joeb

The new mazda engine is going to be turbo charged. From the Speed article:



Anybody want to take a guess as to why they are making 40 of these engines?

Very interesting. thanks. but i do detect a hint of BS about the "mazda" engine. to my knowledge its the ford duratec engine. which is not small and will not be lighter than the rml designed nissan.

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by knighty

Very interesting. thanks. but i do detect a hint of BS about the "mazda" engine. to my knowledge its the ford duratec engine. which is not small and will not be lighter than the rml designed nissan.

And while it's MZR-R based, it's not a Mazda. It'll be badged Elan Power.