Audi LMP1 Discussion

[CTD]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

I just re-read this interview with Treluyer from mid November.

If you combine that with the recent announcements that Treluyer will quit Super GT with Nismo and that he was testing the hybrid R18, it is obvious that he will go to WEC with Audi.

Or Peugeot snatched him (100% kidding)

[EverOne]

Happy New Year all forum!

[Audi R10]

http://forums.fourtitude.com/entry.p...ds-an-American

Bonanomi, Duval....and Long?

[ronnie peterson]

Originally Posted by Audi R10

http://forums.fourtitude.com/entry.p...ds-an-American

Bonanomi, Duval....and Long?

That's simply their opinion and is not based on the real facts, the Long thing.

[gwyllion]

The whole story is just wishful thing and guess work. Duval is most likely going to Toyota.

[gustavobamba]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

The whole story is just wishful thing and guess work. Duval is most likely going to Toyota.

I believe in that to, probably he will run in the second Toyota at Le Mans.

[NelisB]

Originally Posted by Audi R10

http://forums.fourtitude.com/entry.p...ds-an-American

Bonanomi, Duval....and Long?

I doubt Flying Lizard would be glad to see Long go to Audi. Besides that didn't Porsche announce their factory drivers (of which Long is one) having a busy GT schedule this year?

[chernaudi]

Article at DSC Subscribers' section about the R18/R18H. It reports on the rumored 4 car entry at Le Mans and such rumors, but also reports on the R18's visibility issues. Anyone read that section of the article?

[old man]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Article at DSC Subscribers' section about the R18/R18H. It reports on the rumored 4 car entry at Le Mans and such rumors, but also reports on the R18's visibility issues. Anyone read that section of the article?

Yes, there is a picture of a model of the R18 in white that shows the screen "pillars" clearly and makes the point that in black they do not show up. If that is an accurate dippiction of these so called pillars there is no wonder the drivers complain of visability.

[old man]

Picture from DSC:

[Mal]

Originally Posted by old man

Yes, there is a picture of a model of the R18 in white that shows the screen "pillars" clearly and makes the point that in black they do not show up. If that is an accurate dippiction of these so called pillars there is no wonder the drivers complain of visability.

Thats not accurate - there are large A pillars in the Audi's windscreen before door opening - I have mentioned before that I asked Chris (cant remember his surname), the R18 tech chief, at the TT pit visit whether the large A post affected the drivers visibility and his answer was that the size of the A posts didn't matter because the tall wheelarches would prevent better vision if the posts were smaller. The drivers eyeline was clearly below the level of the wheelarches.

The cars problem is and has always been the fact that the wheelarches effectively prevent any meaningful sideways vision.

[knighty]

Just read on page 91 of this months race car engineering magazine that the R18 hybrid system is infact the same williams based electro-flywheel system used by porsche in the GT3R Hybrid, the logic being that Audi are parts of the same group as porsche and it will also help Porsces LMP1 development.......shocker!!!......the information comes from Hartmut Kristen who is the motorsports director at Porsche.........I must admit to being very surprised at this news as the Williams system is a complex and weighty beast, looks totally un-related to road car technology and nowhere near as simple and light as Flybrids pure mechanical flywheel system.........If I remember correctly this Williams flywheel KERS system is shockingly heavy, 47Kg for the flywheel, 10Kg for the power electronics plus another 20Kg (approx) for the front axle based motor/generator, so approx 77Kg......... consider an F1 style KERS system weighs about 20-30Kg and its a real difference.....hmmmm........it must have been a packaging nightmare putting all that clobber in an LMP1 tub, perhaps thats another reason why it was re-designed???...

[NelisB]

Originally Posted by knighty

Just read on page 91 of this months race car engineering magazine that the R18 hybrid system is infact the same williams based electro-flywheel system used by porsche in the GT3R Hybrid, the logic being that Audi are parts of the same group as porsche and it will also help Porsces LMP1 development.......shocker!!!......the information comes from Hartmut Kristen who is the motorsports director at Porsche.........I must admit to being very surprised at this news as the Williams system is a complex and weighty beast, looks totally un-related to road car technology and nowhere near as simple and light as Flybrids pure mechanical flywheel system.........If I remember correctly this Williams flywheel KERS system is shockingly heavy, 47Kg for the flywheel, 10Kg for the power electronics plus another 20Kg (approx) for the front axle based motor/generator, so approx 77Kg......... consider an F1 style KERS system weighs about 20-30Kg and its a real difference.....hmmmm........it must have been a packaging nightmare putting all that clobber in an LMP1 tub, perhaps thats another reason why it was re-designed???...

Looking at the Porsche's implementation. They put the flywheel next to the driver. I guess the Williams flywheel has a more flexible positioning. The F1 KERS needs to be attached to the engine as far as I know. The Williams solution gives you the freedom to position the flywheel where you want.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by knighty

If I remember correctly this Williams flywheel KERS system is shockingly heavy, 47Kg for the flywheel, 10Kg for the power electronics plus another 20Kg (approx) for the front axle based motor/generator, so approx 77Kg......... consider an F1 style KERS system weighs about 20-30Kg and its a real difference

If I do a search, I find slightly different numbers for the weight.

• 911 hybrid 1.0: 45 kg for flywheel, 68 kg for front axle motor/generator, 130 kg in total
• 911 hybrid 2.0: 20% less than previous version, 105 kg in total

The solutions of the Flybrid and Zytek that raced last year at Le Mans have the following specifications:

The complete Flybrid CFT KERS pictured above and as used in LMP1 sportscar racing is capable of 100 kW and 540 kJ of storage but weighs less than 40 kg. This is a full wet weight including the hardware shown, the electro hydraulic control system, KERS control unit, wiring loom, all fluids and the oil cooler.

source: http://www.cftkers.com

ZPH will weigh c.50kg and produce c.40kW of power.

source: http://www.zytekmotorsport.co.uk/zyt...%20_system.pdf

[gwyllion]

I often read that Audi and Porsche will compete with each other in 2014 with different technology and that the VW group has decided that Audi should use a diesel engine in combination with a flywheel based KERS and Porsche a petrol engine in combination with a battery based KERS.

Yes, the Porsche solution is very heavy, but is also twice as powerfull as an F1 KERS.

• 911 hybrid
  • electric motors: 2 x 60 kW (version 1.0) vs 2 x 75 kW (version 2)
  • flywheel battery: 0.2 kWh = 720 kJ capacity (version 1.0) (source)
• F1 KERS
  • 1 x 60 kW electric motor
  • chemical battery with a capacity of 6.67 sec x 60 kW = 400 kJ

I did not find the capacity of the latest version of the Williams Hybrid Power flywheel battery. However, in http://www.institutequarterly.com/IQ...rticle-04.html I read that

WHP is working on flywheels weighing tens of kilograms, with power ratings of around 100-150kW and capable of storing between 0.25kWh and 0.5kWh.

It is important to note that the Porsche system works on the front wheels and hence can recover a lot more kinetic energy than a system that works on the rear axle, such as the Flybrid mechnical flywheel solution or an F1 KERS.

Finally, it is quite straightforward to replace the Williams flywheel battery with a more conventional battery (e.g., lithium ion) because the rest of the system is completely electric.

[alexkiller8]

analyzing the .pdf of almost races of ILMC 2011, peugeot had a much better fuel economy only at LM, in my opinion just because audi choiced an engine map more powerfull than peugeot that choiced a more reliable/fuel efficency one.
However as happened in previous models (V12 peugeot more with almost +10% of torque than V12/V10 audi) me too think that if we make a comparison betwen the 2 actual engines in similiar configuration, the peugeot one is more powerfull than the audi one.

[gwyllion]

Maybe I am reading to much into this, but the last motorsport newsletter of Audi confirms that Lotterer will stay with Audi in 2012.

Family ties: Audi factory driver André Lotterer will contest the historical Legend Boucles de Spa rally on February 18. He drives a Porsche 911 SC RS as tribute to his father who built and raced such a car with his RAS team in the 1980s.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Maybe I am reading to much into this, but the last motorsport newsletter of Audi confirms that Lotterer will stay with Audi in 2012.

Don't think you read to much into it

[gwyllion]

Another hint that Lotterer is doing WEC this year:

Originally Posted by @Andre_Lotterer

To bad Peugeot had to pull out,WEC was gonna be epic with them! Sad for them and our sport! Thanks for making competition real! We'll miss u

source: http://twitter.com/#!/Andre_Lotterer...60261694234624

[Articus]

Sure hope so. He's one impressive young man!

[chernaudi]

Even though it hasn't been announced publicly, Andre and Ben are likely Audi factory drivers now...well, except for the fact that the wording of that article sort of spells it out for Lotterer, now doesn't it?

It seems that they'll be in one of the Joest R18's full time next year, but we'll have to wait for Audi to reveal driver lineups, which will probably happen when the R18 hybrid is publicly launched.

[ronnie peterson]

Lotterer / Tréluyer for WEC with Fassler joining them on Sebring, Spa, Le Mans.
Tom K / McNish with Dindo on longer races.
Dumas / Bernhard / Rockenfeller for the third car on longer races.

I can't see that lineup changing for this years programme. Maybe Bonanomi can stand in for Rockenfeller since Rocky wants to focus more on DTM.

[kober]

Lotterer, Fassler, Treluyer, Kristensen, McNish - two of them will be World Champions at the end of the year (mainly due to Peugeot Sport exit). And my money's on the German/Swiss pair

If you're not able to recall who were the last sports car World Champions, I'll give you the answer: Dalmas and Warwick.

[Wippermann]

http://www.mfspeed.ch/news/blog.html

According to Marcel Fässlers Blog, he will take part in the Audi Fitness Program. Probably that means, he is going to be one of Audis Factory Drivers in 2012!

[Articus]

So the Peugeot 908 and the Toyota TS030 allegedly all use J-Dampers? Can anyone comfirm that the Audi R18 uses some kind of J-damper?