BTCC 2024 News & Rumours

[coffinpilot]

Bobby Thompson posted 'BRITISH TOURING CAR 2024 sponsorship opportunity.' on Linkedin this afternoon with details of what a sponsor can expect.
Obviously after a deal.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Robin Marriott

Hopefully the racing this year will be more interesting than the moral high horsery.

Can you lend me €100,000 I will pay it back - honest

[TinTopGrumpy]

Originally Posted by cxx666

Going by Pit Lane Pass's comments yesterday, coupled with those made by Kieran Gallagher on Facebook after the announcement (assuming they are not the same person), it would be a fair assumption that no agreements or arrangements to see ettle debts have been made

Gallaghers claim is years old though and nothing to do with last season.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by TinTopGrumpy

Gallaghers claim is years old though and nothing to do with last season.

I don't think that he said that is was about last year.

[Protonman]

Originally Posted by coffinpilot

Bobby Thompson posted 'BRITISH TOURING CAR 2024 sponsorship opportunity.' on Linkedin this afternoon with details of what a sponsor can expect.
Obviously after a deal.

Guess this is his pitch for the 2nd Hard seat with Crees as the others . Both have previous at Hard which will cut through the current adverse publicity a bit , ie they already know the full situation . Both however don’t fit the profile of BTCC race winners unless you count class victories. This would omit Proctor who it’s already expected has a deal unless he is in at Toyota or BMW . Bobby T would also appeal to PMR if he can raise the cash .

[MarcusH26]

Don't think Thompson is the second Hard seat. Think this mystery deal involving an unknown team and an extra shell could be him or it's the third PMR seat.

[TinTopGrumpy]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

I don't think that he said that is was about last year.

He didn't but the implication from posts I've seen here and elsewhere is that it's all to do with last years implosion.

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by MarcusH26

Think this mystery deal involving an unknown team and an extra shell could be him

I assumed that turned out be Hard’s return? Unless there’s more going on?

[cxx666]

Originally Posted by TinTopGrumpy

He didn't but the implication from posts I've seen here and elsewhere is that it's all to do with last years implosion.

My understanding is that last year's events were a culmination of mounting debts and the team being run in a questionable way. Not saying that long standing debts and unpaid bills from years gone by are the direct cause of it, but it's almost certainly contributed. The championship seasons may have changed, but it doesn't stop people rightly wanting their money

[redshoes]

When people are questioning if debts have been paid or if there has been an agreement to pay, pointing out that one of the amounts mentioned is actually unpaid from several years ago doesn't do much to improve the situation.

[Overboost]

Originally Posted by TyH

i'm only playing devil's advocate, but do we know for a fact that there's been no agreement or arrangement to pay those owed back?

I feel we should know the full story before passing judgement on the situation.

If there hasn't been any agreement or arrangement to right those wrong's then absolutely that's poor, but it would be good to know the full picture first

From a good source I heard KG along with others (some suppliers) called in their debts, hence the bailiffs. Yes some from years ago, but some from last season too.

When suppliers black list a team, sometimes sponsors, drivers or others (staff, supporters, friends) purchase supplies etc. to keep the show on the road. You can see why several people are claiming they owed money.

Unless you’ve seen someone loose their business or livelihood due to being owed money, it’s maybe easy to overlook. To those affected it certainly is not!

[Pickles]

I think if people knew the extent of what is owed, either in unpaid loans, wages etc, as well as the mental impact the whole situation has had on people, losing their jobs just before Christmas, being kept in the dark about the full extent of the issues etc, they might think differently and not be welcoming them back with open arms.

[touringlegend]

I’m curious how a driver is owed money by a team? Unless he lent them money ?

[Mike Harte]

Well, he hasn't started a new limited company as of today, however he has today changed his registered address to a new premise in Essex.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by touringlegend

I’m curious how a driver is owed money by a team? Unless he lent them money ?

It could be that monies paid by the driver according to a contract that was not fulfilled by the team. For example, and not saying that this happened, but suppose Hamilton had paid for the whole year upfront, but then Gilham demanded more money mid season. Then, as happened last year, Hamilton refused to pay more than the contracted fee and his drive could not continue for the rest of the season.

I would believe that under those circumstances, Hard/Gilham would be contractually bound to return the equivalent amount for the missed races.

And as you state, it is possible that a driver or A.N.Other may have in the past lent the team money if the ran in to difficulties so that the team could carry on for the season, believing the promise that it would be repaid by a certain date.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Well, he hasn't started a new limited company as of today, however he has today changed his registered address to a new premise in Essex.

He hasn't, but that doesn't mean that this entry is not under a new company.

What has to be remembered in all of this, is that while an entry with the name HARD. might be on the grid this year, that does not mean it is the same company that entered previously. Therefore, those who are (or claim to be) owed money may find that the company that owes them is not the company behind the current entry.

I would be amazed if it was TG who owed anyone money, because AFAIK they entry has always been made by a ltd company.

- is legally separate from the people who run it
- has separate finances from personal ones

On a legal basis, anyone who attempts to get back what they (feel) they are owed from the team that is in the paddock this year is probably harassing the wrong legal identity.

For example- if someone was owed money by Motorbase Performance from June 2022, would it be right for them to claim this from Motorbase Performance in 2024? (hint: they are not the same company)

I'll refrain from any more on the subject, as it feels a bit uncomfortable for people to be airing financial grievances in a public forum that should probably be best kept within the legal construct. It can cause a lot of animosity that might be directed at the wrong people / company.

[Robin Marriott]

Originally Posted by cxx666

I can only assume you've never been owed money by someone who shows no sign of giving it back. It's hardly "moral high horsey" to have empathy for those who are owed money by a team who seem to be determined to plough on, a team who have announced their 'come back' alongside a bit of a wishy washy statement about lessons having been learnt from their past endeavours and seemingly not having put things right with all of their creditors.

Personally, I'd rather have 2 less cars on the grid, or another one take their place.

I was owed a decent chunk of money in the midst of a divorce (from an unrelated party). I completely understand the frustration from the people directly involved, it sucks to be in that situation. It taught me to only lend (or spend) what I could afford to lose.

However, there’s a lot of uninvolved people both here and elsewhere who don’t question the financial background of any other teams, nobody asks where the money comes from in team x, nobody wonders who is owed money by team y. It only happens when it’s one specific team, that’s the problem I have with it.

It makes no difference to me who owes who, and it probably doesn’t matter at all to most of the people online who bring up financials every time the name Team Hard is mentioned.

It’s not like everyone else in motorsport or just business in general is a saint anyway.

The whole of this thread people have been saying the grid looks thin and it’s a worry, an extra two cars are announced and now it’s all ‘no, not like that’…

[MarcusH26]

Originally Posted by Evantra

I assumed that turned out be Hard’s return? Unless there’s more going on?

From Autosports article about One's sabbatical this sounds like something different

At face value that leaves a reduction to 21 cars for this season for the BTCC, but sources have suggested that one of the existing teams is working on a deal whereby it could wheel out an additional car, potentially to be run by a satellite operation.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Well, he hasn't started a new limited company as of today, however he has today changed his registered address to a new premise in Essex.

It's not a new premise, it's an accountant's address (DBR Accounts).

[Jiiiiiiim]

Originally Posted by Pickles

I think if people knew the extent of what is owed, either in unpaid loans, wages etc, as well as the mental impact the whole situation has had on people, losing their jobs just before Christmas, being kept in the dark about the full extent of the issues etc, they might think differently and not be welcoming them back with open arms.

[billy bleach]

Surely until the Toyota , WSR and PMR. Seats are filled HARD will have to wait unless there are still drivers stupid enough to think they can get a season for £200,000

[auroan]

Originally Posted by TinTopGrumpy

I noticed that Crees has just passed his HGV as well. Wonder if he's doing double duty for the team? Wouldn't be the first race driver to drive the transporter as well.

Hes not by a long way. A few drivers have driven trucks over the years. Cook and Moffit are two that recently spring to mind.

[coffinpilot]

A couple of points when I was whatsapping a couple of BTCC freelance photographers last night. A few cases of amateur photographers (I'm one of those, purely for pleasure) being promised a few quid for snapping testing claim to have never been paid their £50, or petrol money, or whatever. This going back years. It's not a 'boohoo they never got their money' thing, more indicative of if you agreed in the past to work with HARD you knew the risk (I do know a photographer who openly admitted to working unpaid for the team for a couple of rounds this season - for exposure (pun intended)) but that must surely go up the ladder to higher value items/services? Both those photographers said they wouldn't work with the team because they don't know if they'll get paid. There is a point in there somewhere.

The other thing that came up though in terms of drivers. Joe Marshall from TCR? His car is on racecarsdirect, apparently sold though (like half of the cars on the site!) He tested for HARD last year, and some Legends dude also had a go at Donington. Could either of those still be in the mix?

[coffinpilot]

Originally Posted by auroan

Hes not by a long way. A few drivers have driven trucks over the years. Cook and Moffit are two that recently spring to mind.

I know Adam Morgan did a couple of routes, his Dad said it was more of a publicity thing, he only did it a couple of times. Ciceley commercials got more exposure/web/social hits from that story than when they won a race they said!

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by coffinpilot

and some Legends dude also had a go at Donington. Could either of those still be in the mix?

Do you mean Connor Mills? Hard gave him some degree of support after his crash to keep him going for the season, so doesn’t sound like he’s particularly well-funded.