WEC Race 2016 FIA WEC 6 Hours of Circuit of the Americas aka Lone Star Le Mans - Page 9

Ephaeton · 18 Sep 2016, 02:55 (Ref:3673476)

ah, finally the CLM goes into the garage.

kvenom · 18 Sep 2016, 02:56 (Ref:3673477)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ephaeton

In other news, the CLM still hasn't died yet. What's up with that?!

Told ya.

Ephaeton · 18 Sep 2016, 02:57 (Ref:3673479)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvenom

Told ya.

I was hopeful, but it's just not to be

bobec · 18 Sep 2016, 02:57 (Ref:3673480)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ephaeton

But why should the guys with the lighter engines be discouraged from gaining that advantage? The problem goes both ways, as usual.

Fair enough. Don't correct for the weight. But then don't correct for the superior efficiency of the diesel, and we see where we go. Or at least don't triple (or maybe quadruple) correct for the diesel's advantage

Ephaeton · 18 Sep 2016, 03:00 (Ref:3673483)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobec

Fair enough. Don't correct for the weight. But then don't correct for the superior efficiency of the diesel, and we see where we go. Or at least don't triple (or maybe quadruple) correct for the diesel's advantage

sure, but there's heavier punchers than us sitting on that table. It's detrimental for the image of the series, for one manufacturer, it should be fixed... I just hate how we're all knowing what to do while concentrating on this or that aspect only. It's like Chiana's "P1 in ELMS" - we can dream of improvements all we want, but if you want to really fix it, well, get in there.

ederss7 · 18 Sep 2016, 03:02 (Ref:3673484)

Worst race of the season. Boring in all categories, unless something happens.

bobec · 18 Sep 2016, 03:04 (Ref:3673485)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maelochs

Maybe VAG has decided it would rather Porsche (the more sporting marque) get more publicity than Audi ... maybe noticing that totally dominating Le Mans didn't apparently increase Audi sales and did Nothing for Audi diesels.

I would say Audi is a pretty sporting marque. Interesting point about the sales aspect. I don't know if there are any studies (or if there is available data) on how Audi's Le Mans publicity has affected sales, but there is one indisputable fact - Audi sales have increased steadily through Audi's domination at Le Mans, and Audi became the second most selling premium car brand globally (with transiently getting the top position from BMW every now and then). The effects on diesel sales is also interesting, and there even seemed to be a breakthrough in VAG (mostly VW) diesel the US, though it is obviously no longer relevant, and it might be considered unfair competition.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maelochs

We can all see that Audi appears to be handicapped ... but if they didn't lobby to stop it then they must want it. Does anyone here really think that Audi doesn't know how to play FIA politics? Given that they have ruled the entire 21st Century so far?

Maybe they didn't want to lobby and wanted to figure it out on their own?

Maelochs · 18 Sep 2016, 03:04 (Ref:3673486)

i'd like to point out also that if any of those FCYs had been 90 seconds sooner or later, Audi would be winning this race by a large margin. I am pretty sure WEC doesn't control when drivers collide or cars break---and the collision with the #7 might have been partially Treluyer's fault.

No one was complaining when Audi had 35 seconds on the field and everyone assumed they'd win 1-2 by a mile.

One would have to think there might be Some advantages to Audi's setup ... . given that they were whipping everybody else with ease.

Maelochs · 18 Sep 2016, 03:05 (Ref:3673488)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobec

Maybe they didn't want to lobby and wanted to figure it out on their own?

For a change.

Ephaeton · 18 Sep 2016, 03:07 (Ref:3673489)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maelochs

i'd like to point out also that if any of those FCYs had been 90 seconds sooner or later, Audi would be winning this race by a large margin.

That's true, but with the increased range of the petrols, they could have always covered Audi pitting under FCY as well, while Audi just cannot cover that single lap where they've pitted already. That's a disadvantage that only goes in one direction - Audi's.

ederss7 · 18 Sep 2016, 03:08 (Ref:3673490)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ederss7

Worst race of the season. Boring in all categories, unless something happens.

Di Grassi is catching the Toyota. We may watch a fight for second place, at least.

Maelochs · 18 Sep 2016, 03:08 (Ref:3673491)

Gaps Very slowly tightening up .... Porsche not slowing either Even with the Toyota hitting traffic it cut the gap some ... Audi too .... but i still cannot see a miracle finish.

Unless Audi catches a lucky yellow.

J Jay · 18 Sep 2016, 03:08 (Ref:3673492)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maelochs

We can all see that Audi appears to be handicapped ... but if they didn't lobby to stop it then they must want it. Does anyone here really think that Audi doesn't know how to play FIA politics? Given that they have ruled the entire 21st Century so far?

There's also a rock-and-hard-place scenario in play here. Audi don't have another high-profile series to go to - even the "Audi to F1" bi-annual rumour was only ever a quick way for Red Bull to put pressure on Renault. I wouldn't go as far as to say they must want the current situation - I think they'd rather be winning - but it is still more beneficial than detrimental for Audi to use diesel in LMP1. In fact, we've only recently heard any dissenting voices from Audi outside of the usual posturing at Le Mans.

TzeiTzei · 18 Sep 2016, 03:09 (Ref:3673493)

It must be a boring race when no one is talking about the on track action. I don't know much about the technical stuff, but to me it feels contrived that diesel has shorter fuel mileage.

kvenom · 18 Sep 2016, 03:09 (Ref:3673494)

Toyota pits early.

Ephaeton · 18 Sep 2016, 03:12 (Ref:3673495)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TzeiTzei

It must be a boring race when no one is talking about the on track action.

There's some truth to this, although a race where everybody goes calmly after their business is just as entertaining to me, watching gaps and relative speeds evolve etc. A close battle for the lead would be more enthralling, sure, but I'm not a motorsport fan solely for the overtaking...

bobec · 18 Sep 2016, 03:13 (Ref:3673496)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ephaeton

sure, but there's heavier punchers than us sitting on that table. It's detrimental for the image of the series, for one manufacturer, it should be fixed... I just hate how we're all knowing what to do while concentrating on this or that aspect only. It's like Chiana's "P1 in ELMS" - we can dream of improvements all we want, but if you want to really fix it, well, get in there.

Politics? Bureaucracy? Outdated-ness and loss of touch with reality? It wouldn't be something unheard of in our times.

All I'm saying is there are better ways. But like you said, you need the "heavier punch" There's nothing much for us to do. We can choose to follow the series, or not to follow it. Everyone involved has their own interests (let's not forget about the FIA and what happened with Group C)

J Jay · 18 Sep 2016, 03:17 (Ref:3673497)

There might be a better way to handle the regulations, but the FIA & ACO have chosen to more or less micro-manage every aspect of the powertrain(s). Given the rapid progress we've seen just over this rules cycle I can understand why they wouldn't want to leave any part of this development unchecked.

chernaudi · 18 Sep 2016, 03:19 (Ref:3673499)

Or they could've left the rules alone as for 2013. After all, several of the races from that season were more interesting than this year. Including 2013 COTA vs every other edition since.

TF110 · 18 Sep 2016, 03:21 (Ref:3673500)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobec

Could you be any more obvious

Not trying to be rude, just said by 2nd place Audi. I'd have said the same for anyone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TzeiTzei

It must be a boring race when no one is talking about the on track action. I don't know much about the technical stuff, but to me it feels contrived that diesel has shorter fuel mileage.

They shouldn't. Audi must not be as efficient as they should be or something is wrong with the aco's math.

Ferrari333SP · 18 Sep 2016, 03:23 (Ref:3673503)

I've been away for a few hours; how is the Porsche now ahead of the Audi for 1st?

bobec · 18 Sep 2016, 03:24 (Ref:3673504)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maelochs

For a change.

I'm not familiar with their lobbying history. Yes, they persuaded the ACO to allow diesel for 2006, but they had been winning before that, and could have easily developed the R8 instead, or even could have done a petrol-powered R10 alternative.

I still remember how Toyota lobbied in 2013 to have Audi's fuel tanks made smaller just before Le Mans, and won that argument. I'm not aware of any specific instances where Audi just came up to the ACO days before the race to complain they had just realized that they could never win with the current rules, and so they must be changed.

J Jay · 18 Sep 2016, 03:24 (Ref:3673505)

Lucky FCY or not, Bernhard has been outstanding in this race.

Webber and Hartley have been good "support" drivers as well!

Ephaeton · 18 Sep 2016, 03:25 (Ref:3673507)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferrari333SP

I've been away for a few hours; how is the Porsche now ahead of the Audi for 1st?

in terms of three-letter abbreviations, FCY (or EoT, take your pick)

TF110 · 18 Sep 2016, 03:27 (Ref:3673510)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobec

I'm not familiar with their lobbying history. Yes, they persuaded the ACO to allow diesel for 2006, but they had been winning before that, and could have easily developed the R8 instead, or even could have done a petrol-powered R10 alternative.

I still remember how Toyota lobbied in 2013 to have Audi's fuel tanks made smaller just before Le Mans, and won that argument. I'm not aware of any specific instances where Audi just came up to the ACO days before the race to complain they had just realized that they could never win with the current rules, and so they must be changed.

Audi's tank wasn't touched. The aco only changed Toyota's tank size. They had a legit argument that the diesel didn't rely on air restrictors as much as Toyota. So the change to Audi didn't effect them on speed.

Sarrazin again not going to close up on the car in front, should have put in Conway.

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