No driver orders at Mclaren?/McLaren under investigation - Page 9

Inigo Montoya · 29 May 2007, 17:50 (Ref:1923993)

Please. Back on topic. Reports are that this is to be resolved by the Friday before the Canadian GP.

Leighton Irwin · 29 May 2007, 18:13 (Ref:1924009)

Team orders have been around longer than most of us. Remember (I do) a certain rather rotund German Team Manager from the 30's and 50's. Mercedes had team orders in no uncertain terms. You obeyed or went looking for a new team.
Disobeying orders is indirectly responsible for the death of Gilles.
Certainly there are team orders in IRL and CC. Maybe not early in the race but they happen. It even happens in NAPCAR.
As I said before F1 is a business not a sport. McLaren and Mercedes are in business to win the manufacturer's title. Driver's title is secondary.
Further you have a 2 time WC with a large salary driving for you. 3 times WC sounds good.
You have a rookie on a small salary who owes you a bundle of loyalty (maybe). One time WC would be good but you risk losing Freddie. How long are the respective contracts?
Barring the unthinkable both are going to be around for a long time. One is a proven champion who has withstood the pressure of winning 2 championships against TGF. The other is an extremely good rookie who hasn't proven himself over a full season.
As a hard nosed business man who would you favour?
LH will win races and probably championships over the years and possibly even this year. If for any reason he pulls out a real large point lead then RD will be favouring him.
Team orders are a given and the FIA should butt out.
However, given that both Max and BE are failed drivers with huge egos that is unlikely.
As an aside, from the opposite side of the coin I remember Lee Petty deliberately spinning out the race leader and his son, 'King' Richard Petty, at a race at the CNE in Toronto. So much for NAPCAR not having raced in Canada before this year. They did several times in the early years.

gachjoel · 29 May 2007, 20:26 (Ref:1924105)

Team Orders,dont be silly now

The correct wording is TEAM TACTICS
On a course like monaco your not gonna take the risk of taking yourself or your team mate off.
But no matter what way you look at,what you want to call it,at the end of the day its all about winning or getting the best result for your team.
Other teams have been more subtle in there ways by taking longer on the pit stop.
I know lewis stuck up behind alonso on the start.
But like Martin Brundel Said.....
You cant win a race in the 1st corner
But you can sure as hell lose it.

like you and me,we`re all paid to do a job.
a job that your boss tells you to do.
Why should it be different in sport.

Will things ever change,
i doubt it.

**Adam43** · 29 May 2007, 20:45 (Ref:1924127)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leighton Irwin

As I said before F1 is a business not a sport. McLaren and Mercedes are in business to win the manufacturer's title. Driver's title is secondary.

I am not sure this is absolutely the case. Even for a manufacturer the driver's title gets more publicity and kudos.

Quote:

Further you have a 2 time WC with a large salary driving for you. 3 times WC sounds good.
You have a rookie on a small salary who owes you a bundle of loyalty (maybe). One time WC would be good but you risk losing Freddie. How long are the respective contracts?

In this particular example I don't think this is that relevant. The tactics were to give them the best chance to win the race and the best chance of not throwing away a 1-2. Who to favour wasn't a consideration, I believe.

djinvicta · 29 May 2007, 20:54 (Ref:1924142)

Adam; Who to favour was on the front of the grid. If it had been Lewis, FA would have dived behind him at the start

**Adam43** · 29 May 2007, 21:02 (Ref:1924157)

That is what I mean, it wasn't a choice of Alonso or Hamilton. It was a choice of who was ahead.

gachjoel · 29 May 2007, 21:19 (Ref:1924168)

But if they are in the same situation at the GB grand Prix,
Would you bet on lewis getting his 1st win.
British Team
British driver
British GP.

Major publicity for McClaren.

Thoughts ???

**Bononi** · 29 May 2007, 21:27 (Ref:1924174)

That can happen... but maybe it would be too much for the media !!!!

Inigo Montoya · 29 May 2007, 21:41 (Ref:1924186)

And what if the safety car had come out? Hamilton wins. Then what? Would we have had the discussion that the race was fixed in his favour?

amier · 29 May 2007, 21:45 (Ref:1924191)

LH was never going to win that race, his strategy was based on the safety car being deployed, in which case yes he would have won.

So I cant undersatnd what all the fuss is about, he could not have won that race by beating Alonso on track.

Mr V · 29 May 2007, 21:50 (Ref:1924193)

Quote:

Originally Posted by gachjoel

But if they are in the same situation at the GB grand Prix,
Would you bet on lewis getting his 1st win.
British Team
British driver
British GP.

Major publicity for McClaren.

Thoughts ???

Only if Lewis is quick enough to win the race! I don't see the team, or Fernando "giving" Lewis the win because it would be good publicity.

mac · 29 May 2007, 23:46 (Ref:1924263)

The fact that there are supposedly intelligent people wasting time on an investigation into this is a farce of the highest order.

How many passing moves did we see during the race at Monaco? Why is that? Uh huh.

Can anyone tell me why a team would say, "ok, the two of you race like demons for the win for the last stint" on a circuit as wide and overtaking-friendly as a McDonalds drive-thru lane...?

Can someone please give the FIA something to do...?

Marbot · 30 May 2007, 00:52 (Ref:1924286)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac

Can someone please give the FIA something to do...?

The FIA are looking into "incidents" with regards to the Mclaren team.These may have happened before,during or after the race.If there wasn't something to look at,they wouldn't be looking would they.

Greenback · 30 May 2007, 06:30 (Ref:1924365)

I believe FIA is checking if Mclaren have intentionally change LH's pit strategy just to ensure FA will remain infront.

Pingguest · 30 May 2007, 08:10 (Ref:1924412)

I don't know what to think about this.

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2007/...d_be_excluded/

mac · 30 May 2007, 08:14 (Ref:1924418)

Could Bernie have been pinning his hopes on the dream headlines of his favourite wonder boy (remember Bernie's public lobbying for Lewis to get the McLaren drive?) winning his first race in Monaco?

If this was Speed and Liuzzi in 8th and 9th, would the FIA be drawing such a thick moral line in the sand?

I'm no Ron Dennis fan but this seems crazy - unless there is something way beyond what we are being told.

**touringlegend** · 30 May 2007, 08:20 (Ref:1924420)

I'll be interested to see the "findings" this afternoon.

I truly hope the FIA don't ruin what is building up to be a classic season over something so trivial, in my eyes..

Mr V · 30 May 2007, 09:48 (Ref:1924465)

What i don't understand is this .....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bernie

"If there were orders, they would be getting off lightly if they get the same sort of fine as Ferrari

Is he saying Ferrari got off lightly?

Marbot · 30 May 2007, 10:09 (Ref:1924492)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr V

Is he saying Ferrari got off lightly?

Yes,I think he is.

What he is also saying is that hitting a team like Mclaren or Ferrari with a fine is like removing a pint of water from the Sea.

deejay · 30 May 2007, 10:30 (Ref:1924510)

This is a dead set crazy turn of events.

Marbot · 30 May 2007, 10:48 (Ref:1924528)

It's funny,but in some of the articles I have read today there seems to be a consensus of opinion that being 'told' to "hold station" or "maintain position" does not go against any regulation.They could be right.Bernie seems to think otherwise.

"One thing is for sure: If there were team orders which relate to the position of the two drivers — if somebody is told to move over or hold their position — it is against all the sporting regulations we have."

strider · 30 May 2007, 10:50 (Ref:1924531)

Interesting that Damon Hill thinks McLaren broke the rules, but Jackie Stewart does not.

As far as I'm concerned it's a storm in a teacup.

Sodemo · 30 May 2007, 10:56 (Ref:1924534)

Quote:

Originally Posted by strider

As far as I'm concerned it's a storm in a teacup.

I remember someone saying the exact same thing on the Saturday evening of the USA 2005 GP at Indy...

Marbot · 30 May 2007, 10:59 (Ref:1924536)

Quote:

Originally Posted by strider

As far as I'm concerned it's a storm in a teacup.

I think someone has knocked the teacup over though.

Interesting that Damon thinks that Mclaren did wrong,I think mainly because of the sort of person he is.It would be interesting to know what TGF thinks.

Sodemo · 30 May 2007, 11:05 (Ref:1924538)

This is a very odd situation.

Bernie is saying they should be excluded from the championship, or have a heavy fine.

Think back to Turkey 2006, when it was the Ferrari of Massa in the lead. He was ahead for the whole race. Micheal was in third and trying to get past Alonso for second place. Now towards the end of that race Massa slowed down massively in anticipation of Michael passing Alonso, if Michael had passed Alonso at that race, you can be sure that Massa would have allowed Michael to pass him.

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