[WEC] 2015 WEC Discussion

[Christian Mogami]

ACO/FIA talking about testing limit of 40-50 days a year for the LMP1.

[carbon_titanium]

Originally Posted by Christian Mogami

ACO/FIA talking about testing limit of 40-50 days a year for the LMP1.

f1 style facepalm rule...

[J Jay]

Would anyone with more knowledge care to fill me in on how much testing the factory squads currently do?

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Christian Mogami

ACO/FIA talking about testing limit of 40-50 days a year for the LMP1.

The Motorsport Total article you're referring to does not only talk about P1 but 40-50 is for all the classes.

Anyway, as I said earlier... now teams in other series can have extra luxury over these teams

Originally Posted by Chiana

Also, if they do start limiting testing in any form then USCC & ELMS & (lolz) AsLMS & other possible guests have extra advantage for LM if they don't have to follow any limits WEC has. Unless they start limiting classes as whole... but how could you limit say what Corvette Racing does in US for their series

[TRuss]

I've been waiting for the FIA to FIA it up.

[carbon_titanium]

Originally Posted by J Jay

Would anyone with more knowledge care to fill me in on how much testing the factory squads currently do?

as far I know toyota usually starts to test on january at paul ricard, during the winter sometimes tests at algarve too. After the spa race, TMG uses to test the LD car at aragon in spain. This year tested the car on summer at magny cours...
but I guess they test much less than 50 days a year.

No doubt that audi is the one who tests more... abu dhabi in december-january, sebring in february, monza during the spring to test the LD car. Last year and this year during summer they tested at lausitzring. Surely they do some test at paul ricard too during the year.

[J Jay]

Yes, this would seem to be more detrimental to Audi (and Porsche?) on the surface. We know that Toyota's budget, while considerable, is far less than the VAG duo so if they weren't affected by this proposed limit it wouldn't surprise me.

I don't think this would do anything to close the gap with privateers on its own though - we have seen a lot of factory unreliability this year but I imagine that would be almost all sorted by next season. Perhaps it's meant more as a preventative measure to ensure nobody can test their way to winning*.

*Any more than is currently the case, before the inevitable budget arguments start.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by TRuss

I've been waiting for the FIA to FIA it up.

FIA already FIAted it up when we lost merged grids and Grade 2 tracks.

[carbon_titanium]

Agree, also because rebellion racing, who is the richest among the 2 only remaining lmp1 private teams, as far I know this year did only one test session at paul ricard before spa race (maybe they tested during summer, but I don't know). Lotus did 2 or 3 test sessions so far. Is very unlikely that rebellion and lotus will do another test session before the end of the season... to put a test cap in WEC is simply insane.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by TRuss

I've been waiting for the FIA to FIA it up.

And lets pretend teams or ACO had no say in this and were never ever asked by FIA even once.

Seriously.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by J Jay

Would anyone with more knowledge care to fill me in on how much testing the factory squads currently do?

Should be fairly easy to estimate, because even currently "closed private testing" is limited to 10 days. Rest of the tests are "open private testing", which have to be informed to the FIA, which then informs other teams and the team that reserved the circuit can not forbid participation of other teams. So, in theory there could be 10 days done in secrecy, rest should have been more or less public. Wouldn't be surprised if they currently do not even hit that 40-50 limit.

So yes, there is already a testing restriction. If someone didn't know that, that someone can now retroactively label past seasons as total FIA-ruined crap. Oh yeah, also ALMS always had one and way stricter than the mentioned 40-50 days.

[David Land]

Tweet from Dagys:

I'm starting to lose my mind. Just learned of a 5th #TUSC team that's evaluating a potential #FIAWEC program for 2015. Crazy. @FIAWEC

TUSC is really starting to look meager. Such poor management.

[chernaudi]

Actually, if each class gets 40-50 test days, especially in LMP1, I doubt that it'll change much. If anything, on the surface, it's less restrictive than the current format, where each team is allowed 10 days to do whatever they want with.

Granted, that can be circumvented by declaring tests to be open tests and even buying extra days off the ACO by paying an extra fee.

But as it stands now, if it's 50 days per class, everyone still gets the 10 days to do whatever they want with in LMP1, and I think that the ACO and FIA will still have some loopholes that Audi, Porsche, and even Toyota can exploit--and we know that even Toyota likely test for more than 10 days a season.

Of course, neither set of testing restrictions don't mean much if teams can get around them though inbred loopholes, and Audi, Porsche and Toyota have done a lot more rig-post, engine and chassis dyno, rolling road windtunnel, and bench testing than any private team can dream of. Even Audi admitted that they've done significantly less on-track testing than they've done the past couple of years because of improvements in the in-house testing proceedures.

Also, let's not forget that Audi and Porsche essentially own "race tracks" in their own backyards to test cars. That's the only thing that TMG's facility lacks, and they'd probably have one if not for money and property space issues.

[rich07]

Originally Posted by David Land

Tweet from Dagys:



TUSC is really starting to look meager. Such poor management.

Hmmm very interesting but I wonder it could be. Doubt it would from the GTLM and in that I could only think of Falken going to the worldwide series seeing as though the rest don't see the benefit of racing outside of the US.

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by Chiana

There are many ways of interpreting what that 'tire limit' means, it doesn't necessarily mean limiting tires during race (and most certainly not Le Mans).

Reduce testing is the single biggest mistake F1 has made in the past decade.

Also, artificially trying to create unreliability for LMP1 so that few privateers can possibly have a chance? What a strange argument.

I agree that reduced testing in F1 has been a disaster. But we're not talking about F1.

F1 is the pinnacle - it's about speed, money and above all, excess. In my opinion, the moment you restrict anything, you weaken the product.

As for disagreeing with me on the unreliability point - fine, I see the pros and cons to both sides, but I would like an explanation as to why it's a "strange" argument - I see the other side, and I wouldn't call it strange. Modern motor racing is often so clinical and professional, it lacks the variables it once had. 20, 30, 40 years ago there were enough variables for a garagiste to win, let alone a privateer. I'd rather have certain limits in place than outwright budget caps in the top class, that is for sure....

I suspect the testing rules won't change much anyway. We're probably talking about limiting to what it is now - before things get silly with the addition of Nissan.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Actually, if each class gets 40-50 test days, especially in LMP1, I doubt that it'll change much. If anything, on the surface, it's less restrictive than the current format, where each team is allowed 10 days to do whatever they want with.

Granted, that can be circumvented by declaring tests to be open tests and even buying extra days off the ACO by paying an extra fee.

But as it stands now, if it's 50 days per class, everyone still gets the 10 days to do whatever they want with in LMP1, and I think that the ACO and FIA will still have some loopholes that Audi, Porsche, and even Toyota can exploit--and we know that even Toyota likely test for more than 10 days a season.

Of course, neither set of testing restrictions don't mean much if teams can get around them though inbred loopholes, and Audi, Porsche and Toyota have done a lot more rig-post, engine and chassis dyno, rolling road windtunnel, and bench testing than any private team can dream of. Even Audi admitted that they've done significantly less on-track testing than they've done the past couple of years because of improvements in the in-house testing proceedures.

Also, let's not forget that Audi and Porsche essentially own "race tracks" in their own backyards to test cars. That's the only thing that TMG's facility lacks, and they'd probably have one if not for money and property space issues.

You dont need a test track when you have what tmg has. Even f1 teams go there, and not just Caterham, but McLaren and Ferrari. They use the Toyota tunnel to calibrate their own tunnel Besides, with the team up with Oreca, they have Paul Ricard.

[chernaudi]

I'm just saying that if Toyota had enough room and could spare some cash, they'd have their own small test track without having to venture to Spa or the Nurburgring, which neither are especially far away from Cologne, or Paul Ricard, which is in the south of France.

Also, though I believe that the new revised test limits won't seriously impact any of the LMP1 teams, I do have a question about the track grades. PR, Nur and Spa for Toyota are Grade 1T or above (Spa and Nur are Grade 1, PR is at least Grade 1T), the Audi test track would for sure be a Grade 2 based on layout and such.

But the Porsche Weissach test track, that track looks more like a hillclimb than a "track". A hairy-chested venue for sure, but it wouldn't rank high on the FIA track grade ratings.

[JoestForEver]

Testing limits is the stupidest cost cutting ideas. It only directs testing money to build expensive simulators which is something that the privateers can never catch up regardless of money.

[TRuss]

Originally Posted by deggis

And lets pretend teams or ACO had no say in this and were never ever asked by FIA even once.

Seriously.

Relax. It's just an Internet forum.

[Gulf]

Originally Posted by JoestForEver

Testing limits is the stupidest cost cutting ideas. It only directs testing money to build expensive simulators which is something that the privateers can never catch up regardless of money.

This.

There should be no testing limit at some point cost cutting has to stop.

[Deleted]

This should rather belong to LM section but since I think it lacks appropriate thread let's just put it here:

In regards to the recent V8 Supercar calendar announcement, there will be no clash between V8SC and Le Mans (or Test Day!) next year as there so often is! So fellas with aspirations like Lowndes could come and play without worries and try something other than GT3 for a change.

[Acid09]

Bahrain confirmed through 2017

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/f...-through-2017/

Let the complaining unfold...

[isynge]

Originally Posted by Acid09

Bahrain confirmed through 2017

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/f...-through-2017/

Let the complaining unfold...

I don't see any profound grounds to really complain. I had issues with going to Bahrain at the height of the human rights controversy, especially as F1 hadn't gone - which meant it all smacked a little too much of the squalid side of politics than a sound racing decision.

Bahrain is clearly putting a degree of cash into the series, to say nothing of doling out dates at Le Mans, and in the interest of series continuity and building interest in the region I can't really have any issues with it. Is it the most exciting track we'll ever see? Well no, it's not that, but it has produced some decent races in the past and I can't help thinking there's a requirement for the WEC to have some sort of footprint in the Gulf area.

[Deleted]

Dagys is unusually late with that, it was announced days ago. Also he forgot to mention the full-F1-floodlights-for-WEC-for-some-reason, because last year they were 'only' at 60%

[Simmi]

Fine with me. Given I doubt I'll ever attend the race I'm actually quite happy about the increased lighting. It'll be easier to follow on TV.