Merger talks again? - Page 9

indycool · 4 May 2006, 17:59 (Ref:1600800)

It makes it the writer's perception rather than the subject's. Big difference.

Fogelhund · 4 May 2006, 19:19 (Ref:1600846)

Quote:

Originally Posted by indycool

It makes it the writer's perception rather than the subject's. Big difference.

Where are the actual quote's denying that these are Ganassi's viewpoints? There aren't any, and there won't be any. A guy like Kirby (like him or not), hasn't been in business this long, by putting words in people's mouths. You think he's going to get time with Ganassi, or anyone else if he start's deliberately misleading people in such a manner?

How many teams, drivers.... from both sides have to be directly quoted, or paraphrased on the exact same issue, before people start believing them? So, it is believable that Champcars might not be healthy, because PLN is quoted/paraphrased that a merger is needed, or things ain't working, but on the IRL side.. it isn't believable?

Hasn't Penske also been quoted similarily? Was it Tracy or Bourdais too?

I appreciate that many people have become so emotionally vested in having their way "win", but it is time to face reality... everybody is in trouble. Owners/Drivers/fans of all series should come to realize this, (most have) and the silly happy speak that is occuring at this forum and others, that all is ok mirrors that of the Pooksie's who claimed that the spending was going to make "CART" the entity work out just fine.

It isn't just fine. Those who have come to the IRL to feed from the Honda/Toyota buffet, have no such income stream now. Yet, we still have people who put their heads in the sand, and don't believe anything that might be negative towards their vested cause.

Not to worry. There is likely to be just one series at some point. Neither are strong enough to survive on their own, and in my opinion, neither are headed in the right direction. There is unlikely to be great growth until such time as there is only one. The length of time until there is one, will say a great deal about those involved in the process.

paul-collins · 4 May 2006, 19:27 (Ref:1600850)

I dunno, IC. This is a pretty definitive statement.

Quote:

Chip Ganassi has made it very clear over the last few months that if reunification doesn't happen he will not be able to attract the sponsorship to continue in open-wheel racing and will pull-out...

It's coming from a respected (outside of IRL supporters) source. It's getting a lot of play.

Floyd's never been one to let a firm statement stand where being coy might get him a little more consideration; since we've not seen any correction, retraction, rebuttal emanating from anywhere, I'd have to say the thrust is true. These guys will go where they can make money doing what they love. They can't sell sponsorship; they don't have manufacturer support; are they doing it out of loyalty?

Fact is the two series are hurting. the Indy 500 will survive regardless, but to confuse the I500's health with the IRL's health is a big mistake - one that many posters seem to make.

On another forum someone posted that the merger between the two fanbases makes as much sense as a Republican/Democrat merger. Perhaps this analogy is true inasmuch as Republicans and Democrats are both voters. There's a huge world out there that doesn't watch OW racing (or vote, to carry the analogy). They have watched in the past. Some of them still tune in for the Indy 500. This is the audience that is necessary for OW racing to survive.

indycool · 4 May 2006, 20:30 (Ref:1600877)

I don't deny any of the reasons people are putting forth for one series. I want one series, too.

But paul, that paragraph is second-hand as you originally posted. It was written by a staff writer on the CC payroll, a former journalist who is NOT a journalist any more. And it isn't a direct quote from Ganassi. And none of us knows what's going to happen with these guys in the future and a lot of things could change what they say today. Michael Andretti retired as a driver. But what are you going to see him doing Memorial Day weekend?

paul-collins · 4 May 2006, 21:13 (Ref:1600894)

Quote:

Originally Posted by indycool

Michael Andretti retired as a driver. But what are you going to see him doing Memorial Day weekend?

Sign a contract with Honda for 2007?

As I said, it's important to separate the health of the Indy 500 from the health of the IRL. These entities are not interchangeable.

Please note, I'm not saying that Kirby isn't in the Champcar camp. What I am saying is that he's still respected enough within the industry that no one else within it is questioning what he's said.

I'd bet that there are quite a few writers out there who have the access to Floyd and who, if they thought they'd get the denial they wanted, would ask the question. So far, all I've seen are internet experts casting aspersions at Kirby rather than attacking the evidence. Where's the rebuttal?

indycool · 4 May 2006, 21:33 (Ref:1600906)

The evidence is that there's no quote from Ganassi saying "I am history if...."

There is no attribution to the statement. I've seen both Kirby and Miller quote Ganassi and say things about what Ganassi's going to do or not do and Ganassi's usually just jerking their chain.

Now, if there were direct quotes from these guys saying these things definitively in a daily newspaper in a story by an independent newspaper writer, I would buy it. Not with no quotes, and not with Kirby writing it.

macdaddy · 5 May 2006, 01:22 (Ref:1600976)

A bit redundant, perhaps?

Myself? I believe it. And I don't need direct quotes. It's blatantly obvious, as far as I'm concerned.

JohnSSC · 5 May 2006, 03:22 (Ref:1600996)

Agreed macdaddy, a bit redundant!

Gang, y'all are missing IC's point. Basic Journalism 101 is: "Who, What, When Where and Why." Guys like Miller and Kirby MAY be accurately paraphrasing. Paraphrasing should be used to emphasize or further illustrate a quote - not replace it. The problem here is that for me personally I am really sick of the "on background" this and "reliable sources" that which are almost as bad as using: "Joe Blow has been saying..."

What I would like to know is: "Joe Blow" has been saying "What" to "Whom?" "When" did he say it? "Where" did he say it and "Why?"

That is what we are missing here! We all here know the reasons (whether we like 'em or not) that there will be one series sooner or later. I just wish the Kirby's of this world would stop floating trial balloons for folks who are using the press for whatever reason of their own (posturing, gamesmanship, or just needing some attention). Let the negotiators negotiate (if that is indeed happening) and somebody call me when there is a substantive, direct attribute statement.

Fogelhund · 8 May 2006, 03:06 (Ref:1602952)

Robin Miller tonight said that he thinks the merger is super close. He said that he thinks both sides have agreed on a chassis, engine and the schedule. What is all hinges on is WHO is going to run it. Said the BEST thing that can be done, is to get an outsider to run it. Someone who isnt biased about either series. Scott Atherton of IMSA/American Le Mans Series is apparently the leading candidate.

mountainstar · 8 May 2006, 04:05 (Ref:1602971)

It better be close because I've tired of the jibber jabber about it.

A-A · 8 May 2006, 04:06 (Ref:1602972)

Do you think the obvious place to annouce a merger (if it is happening, and/ or if all the details are sorted out) would be at the 500 this month? Lots of media, a reasonable amount of interest from the public. Lots of photos of smiling guys patting each other on the back.
All we can do is hope.

mac · 8 May 2006, 05:39 (Ref:1603011)

I've tried to not let these latest talks get me too excited, as we have seen it before. And I have managed that up until now.

However, I just can't help but start to feel a little excited by the prospect.

indycool · 8 May 2006, 12:01 (Ref:1603274)

Share your opinion, mac.....IMO, it's too early to get too excited yet. If a schedule was "done," for example, then a promoter would leak whether he was "in" or "out," for one thing. I guess talks are continuing and that's good. But they're not done.

luke · 8 May 2006, 15:06 (Ref:1603422)

Well as it's been quiet lately maybe they are going to announce things at the 'grandest stage' of them all, the 500 during this month. It would make for no other better location.

Tim Northcutt · 8 May 2006, 15:10 (Ref:1603426)

IF (Big "If") they announce anything this month, it would be in the final week (May 22-26) leading up to the Indy 500....

They always save big announcements like that for the final week, after the field has been set, because there will be no track activity until Carb Day on Friday and the media that will come to town to cover the race will be arriving during the week for the events.

macdaddy · 9 May 2006, 01:21 (Ref:1603860)

Quote:

Fogelhund:

Robin Miller tonight said that he thinks the merger is super close. He said that he thinks both sides have agreed on a chassis, engine and the schedule. What is all hinges on is WHO is going to run it. Said the BEST thing that can be done, is to get an outsider to run it. Someone who isnt biased about either series. Scott Atherton of IMSA/American Le Mans Series is apparently the leading candidate.

I watched that, too. And although I've always looked at this subject with a skeptical eye, I must admit that this time, something seems to be different. I really think it's going to happen.

Yet, I also think that 2007 is too early. Most of these venues, promoters, city councils, sponsors ect. have multi-year deals.

enemy-ace · 9 May 2006, 02:21 (Ref:1603878)

While I think Atherton would be a good choice, isn't he contracted to the ALMS? I think he has been promoted as well lately.

luke · 9 May 2006, 07:16 (Ref:1603960)

That's very good news I guess and it looks likely to happen and I can honestly say that as talks haven't gone on this long and well. I just would have thought if they were to merge, wouldn't KK and TG still want to run the series? Obviously they want the best in their minds for open wheel racing so whish to step down? That's only what I can see...

indycool · 9 May 2006, 11:51 (Ref:1604171)

Just IMO, but I don't see much difference in the merger status today than I did yesterday or the day before or the day before that. Robin can make any statements he wants, and he's entitled to his opinion, but based on what? I think a merger will eventually happen, but I don't believe it to be imminent. IMO, all those details he mentioned just can't be done yet.

paul-collins · 9 May 2006, 13:13 (Ref:1604244)

Quote:

Originally Posted by enemy-ace

While I think Atherton would be a good choice, isn't he contracted to the ALMS? I think he has been promoted as well lately.

Actually, he's part of the ownership.

indycool · 9 May 2006, 13:18 (Ref:1604248)

paul's right....Panoz instituted a profit-sharing/ownership program for key ALMS employees a few years ago.

Amar7605 · 9 May 2006, 17:31 (Ref:1604432)

ALMS is gaining popularity. Perhaps Atheron can usher in a new era and rejuvinate the open-wheel fan base.

**Assuming it's gonna happen**

Fogelhund · 9 May 2006, 19:54 (Ref:1604518)

FWIW, I talked to some people at the Panoz office this week, and Atherton has stated that it isn't a role he is interested in, though he is flattered.

He has a decent ownership in Fountainhead now, which owns various assets, including the ALMS, so the move really wouldn't be one that makes much sense. (Unless ownership was on the table.)

Fogelhund · 10 May 2006, 11:52 (Ref:1605021)

http://www.americanlemans.com/News/Article.aspx?ID=1953

Quote:

Recent speculation in the media that I might be nominated to head a unified open wheel series is flattering but inaccurate.

climb · 10 May 2006, 14:42 (Ref:1605141)

..maybe the reason is that Panoz won't be the chassis manufacturer of the unified series...

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