[Team] Marussia - what next?

[old man]

Originally Posted by bella

can't help but wonder if haas is involved with this attempt though. something about him taking ownership, directing his funds, and building his new team around the bare bones of an existing core of knowledge in the management and the designs makes a lot of sense.

Booth says his potential backer is credible, by which we assume he means has adequate capital, and as the team is still in Administration one of the assets is the prize money due that will add to the capital the backer provides. I agree with Bella here but whoever it is is very welcome.

What was the outcome of the Court action where the debts were revealed recently?

[old man]

Originally Posted by steve_r

Auction of the Marussia 2014 cars and equipment delayed / postponed

Auction website actually now says CANCELLED.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by old man

What was the outcome of the Court action where the debts were revealed recently?

There was no outcome, per se, as this was just part of the administrative process undertaken by the administrator to report to the Court on what was the then current situation.

[backfire]

Here's a prediction - Jonathan Palmer buys the team, but I can't think who will be the first driver signing............

[ger80]

Originally Posted by backfire

Here's a prediction - Jonathan Palmer buys the team, but I can't think who will be the first driver signing............

Will he ask Kolles to run it?

[old man]

Originally Posted by backfire

Here's a prediction - Jonathan Palmer buys the team, but I can't think who will be the first driver signing............

that is not the first time that thought has crossed our minds

Also, was talking to someone this evening who reminded me that the guy who ran the Audi race operation is now working for Sam Li, now he would qualify as a credible backer

[JeremySmith]

Haas F1 formally Marrusia ....

[Nicholosophy]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Haas F1 formally Marrusia ....

Eh. Run as Manor in 2015. Get the prizemoney owed plus they get some guaranteed money for 2015 due to being 10th last year I believe. Get a better understanding of how it all works. Get his people into place and get them some experience inside the circus.

Haas F1 from 2016.

[mikuni]

Nah if they were to do it that way it would be difficult to dodge the debt.

This was Haas gets the few benefits of buying a failed F1 team without any of the negatives. He can hand pick his team (from those who are available, depending on his funds) and hit the ground running in 2016. Plus he may now own a couple of 'current' chassis that he can test all he likes throughout the 2015 year. A luxury that no one else has.

[old man]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Haas F1 formally Marrusia ....

Is this inside info from Texas or speculation?

The Autosport report refers to "a group of investors"

Fascinating

[steve_r]

Oh no, not another mysterious "group of investors".

Why would an investor invest in a loss making back of the grid F1 team. When was the last time an investor actually made money out of purchasing a back of the grid F1 team?

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by old man

Is this inside info from Texas or speculation?

The Autosport report refers to "a group of investors"

Fascinating

I am guessing that this might happen ...

[bella]

Originally Posted by mikuni

Nah if they were to do it that way it would be difficult to dodge the debt.

This was Haas gets the few benefits of buying a failed F1 team without any of the negatives. He can hand pick his team (from those who are available, depending on his funds) and hit the ground running in 2016. Plus he may now own a couple of 'current' chassis that he can test all he likes throughout the 2015 year. A luxury that no one else has.

i like that scenario, very well put.

though purely hypothetically and i don't really know that much about the do's and don'ts of receivership and replacement companies... but there has to be a way of taking the entry but not the debt. so you could have the entry (by subbying out to manor/whateveryouwantocallthem to run the thing), and your pick of the assets. then the company doing the subcontracting simply changes at the end of the season (to haas) to take over the entry.

i suppose if the entry is owned in a seperate company to the marussia team that has gone belly up it's much easier to do, and seeing as it'd be a completely different setup with only the same management it would be hard to argue the debt belongs to the same organisation.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by backfire

Here's a prediction - Jonathan Palmer buys the team, but I can't think who will be the first driver signing............

Would seem to be highly unlikely as Jolyon Palmer has just been signed as third/reserve driver for Lotus, and as such will attend every Grand Prix and test session for them, as well as driving the 2015 car during some of the Friday morning free practice sessions.

[Mike Harte]

[QUOTE=bella;3494437]

though purely hypothetically and i don't really know that much about the do's and don'ts of receivership and replacement companies... but there has to be a way of taking the entry but not the debt. so you could have the entry (by subbying out to manor/whateveryouwantocallthem to run the thing), and your pick of the assets. then the company doing the subcontracting simply changes at the end of the season (to haas) to take over the entry. [QUOTE]

In simplistic terms, I believe that the situation at Marussia has now gone beyond the point at which your scenario could possibly happen.

At a very early stage, the owners could have possibly arranged what is known as a pre-pack arrangement whereby they or another party could have taken over the assets for a mere fraction of their true worth, without having to honour the company's debts. However, now it is highly unlikely that the creditors would allow a new owner to step in without some acknowledgement of the debts, even if they were not satisfied in full.

These pre-pack arrangements are, in my opinion, totally unethical, and I believe that it will not be long before this, or the next, government outlaws them and not before time.

[bella]

they wouldn't purchase all the assets though - all they would need is the 2014 car, perhaps the 2015 one and the pit equipment would be nice. there is no factory contents as such to buy. the trucks can be resourced easily, and rented for the first few tests until the european season starts.

i agree, the pre-packed sales are very unethical. but i think it would be hard to argue that the team that would operate the 2014-5 ex-marussia cars were anything to do with marussia simply because they used some of the same kit. the same thing has been done in the past without the bat of an eyelid. staff would mostly be entirely different for starters.

if a chunk of the stuff wasn't sold as a going concern then the creditors stand no chance of getting anywhere near the sums they're owed.

[P38 in workshop]

Originally Posted by bella

if a chunk of the stuff wasn't sold as a going concern then the creditors stand no chance of getting anywhere near the sums they're owed.

I think they will have realised as much from the moment the administrators walked in.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by bella

i like that scenario, very well put.

though purely hypothetically and i don't really know that much about the do's and don'ts of receivership and replacement companies... but there has to be a way of taking the entry but not the debt. so you could have the entry (by subbying out to manor/whateveryouwantocallthem to run the thing), and your pick of the assets. then the company doing the subcontracting simply changes at the end of the season (to haas) to take over the entry.

i suppose if the entry is owned in a seperate company to the marussia team that has gone belly up it's much easier to do, and seeing as it'd be a completely different setup with only the same management it would be hard to argue the debt belongs to the same organisation.

This one is (unfortuately) kinda easy to circumvent... if the administrator is comfortable in selling the entry to the 3rd party related to the former principals of the failed entity. Or they use a 'front man' to get that deal over the line, and then assert their shareholdings post-acquisition.

The question of the administrator wanting to sell the entry might come down to nobody else being in the race for the sale...

[GTRMagic]

'Haas To Run Marussia In 2015' - Motorsport.com

Would someone really spend €100m to rescue €40m?

[Dutton]

This is F1 you are talking about. Spending money to lose money is the nature of the beast when it comes to the back of the grid.

If the whole Ferrari satellite team thing plays out, then I guess they would rationalise this strategy in terms of big-picture thinking to provide them with the ability for greater utilisation.

Could be a means to acquire IP early with the thinking it lets them start integrating with whatever stuff or information Ferrari may be putting their way.

[old man]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

'Haas To Run Marussia In 2015' - Motorsport.com

Would someone really spend €100m to rescue €40m?

My bet is that the mysterious "group of investors" is not Haas, first of all he is not a "group". Then I tend to agree with the above comment. The attraction for Haas has to be as constructed on here, to get to empirical data by running the Marrusia car in testing. As has been said Ferrari would welcome the opportunity to test engines and I doubt the regulations prohibit them from supplying F1 engines to someone who is not an F1 entrant.

No, I think there is another game going on here

Minor point: both the article above and the Autosport piece say the auction is postponed, that is not the case, the auction is cancelled, I just looked again on the auction website. Of course it may have been true when the pieces were written

[Tracsmart]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

'Haas To Run Marussia In 2015' - Motorsport.com

Would someone really spend €100m to rescue €40m?

As the infamous entrant in F1 Rob Walker stated when asked in an interview, "Can you make money in Formula 1?
"My dear chap, you can make a small fortune, provided you start with a large one"

[old man]

Originally Posted by Tracsmart

As the infamous entrant in F1 Rob Walker stated when asked in an interview, "Can you make money in Formula 1?
"My dear chap, you can make a small fortune, provided you start with a large one"

Puzzled why you say "infamous"?

[Tracsmart]

Originally Posted by old man

Puzzled why you say "infamous"?

Purely a slip on the keyboard, I did mean famous

[Moneyseeker]

Autosport are saying that it is only a deal to buy the Marussia factory from Cheglakov, not a take over per se. But the wording chosen is quite precise

But AUTOSPORT understands that Haas has no intention of deviating from its original plan of starting racing from 2016, after agreeing a close technical partnership with Ferrari.

Of course this does not preclude Hass from buying the kit to purely test in 2015, but this would forgoe the prize money for which the team would have to be on the grid in Melbourne.

However, possibly the best suggestion is some sort of Ferrari backed buyout of Marussia as that is probably the only way they have a chance of seeing their money from last year again, would enable them to run Ferrari junior drivers and would give them even more influence over the grid.

Who knows, but on the face of it another 'bunch of investors' will be joining the queue to wash their money down the drain for little reward, so a party that has a vested interest in F1 would make more sense.