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29 Nov 2016, 15:11 (Ref:3692100) | #201 | ||
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Richard |
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To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one." |
29 Nov 2016, 15:16 (Ref:3692103) | #202 | ||
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I know it's for a different forum but I thought you'd like to know, you don't have to wait too long for the racing to begin again.
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"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
29 Nov 2016, 15:44 (Ref:3692118) | #203 | |||
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Wandering further and further off topic here So - about that F1 thing then........ |
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29 Nov 2016, 15:51 (Ref:3692121) | #204 | ||
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So how about the possibility that the whole thing was choreographed to boost interest in F1.............
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Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere. (Einstein) |
29 Nov 2016, 15:58 (Ref:3692124) | #205 | |
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29 Nov 2016, 16:26 (Ref:3692135) | #206 | |||
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First to the life boat, or 'Women and children first'. We all admire different people for just these reasons, for me Massa will always be the epitome of a true sportsman. I suspect you consider Lewis is? |
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When asking; "Is he joking?" Best assume yes! |
29 Nov 2016, 16:59 (Ref:3692146) | #207 | |
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dunno about all this true "sportsman" bo.. nonsense, it's based on values that are hard to nail down and as the car swapping story shows, not really valid in modern f1. there's so much more resting on things nowadays, you're not looking at a sport thats reported on in newspapers and newsreels, it's the internet and social media. drivers represent multiple brands, hundreds of people work for teams... it's much more complex than it was. you can't go looking for sportsmanship on the scale of the brownlee brothers in f1. it's not compatible.
but if i had to name a true "sportsman", i think nico is pretty close. to a modern team/workforce, he's the perfect driver to work with and for. he's fantastic with the press, i love how he dropped his guard after the abu dhabi race and spoke honestly and openly. but also apologised profusely for not being so open in the first place. he might lack the character and fire of someone like hamilton but that's literally exactly what makes lewis not a "sportsman" in so many peoples eyes... |
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devils advocate in-chief and professional arguer of both sides |
29 Nov 2016, 17:23 (Ref:3692153) | #208 | |||
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In my excitement at making what I thought was a pithy & witty comment I completely forgot the smilie. So please accept another |
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Incognito: An Italian phrase meaning Nice Gearchange! |
29 Nov 2016, 17:38 (Ref:3692157) | #209 | ||
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Bella, the problem is that for us old fogeys that can actually remember the days of swapping cars in F1, it only seems like a year or so ago that driver swaps were allowed in the Le Mans 24. And I am pretty damn certain that the replaced driver didn't go up to his boss and suggest the change-over before it happened.
But you "sucked" it up, because you were a team member. |
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29 Nov 2016, 17:41 (Ref:3692158) | #210 | ||
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29 Nov 2016, 17:46 (Ref:3692159) | #211 | ||
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i dont get that to be honest.
how is swapping a car good sportsmanship? perhaps good sportsmanship by the person giving up the car but it seems like a very self serving action by the person who takes the car and opportunity to succeed away from their team mate. that doesnt seem very sporting at all. |
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29 Nov 2016, 17:59 (Ref:3692165) | #212 | |||
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No, not at all. I don't like Lewis's petulance and sulky attitude when things don't go his way; not worthy of a three times WDC. It's a pity he didn't learn a little humility from Jenson Button, when they were at McLaren together. |
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"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
29 Nov 2016, 18:23 (Ref:3692169) | #213 | |||
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And I cannot remember any of the motoring press once making a big deal out of it; it was acceptable then, and it was considered good sportsmanship by the disappointed driver. |
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29 Nov 2016, 19:29 (Ref:3692180) | #214 | |||
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'the boss told me to do that' works in some cases but its not a universal defense. anyways, to be honest i dont think LH is a particularity good example of a good sportsman either (i think he is a great driver but so are others as well) so i agree with you there but i do quite strongly believe that team orders is anathema to the concept of fair and open competition. imo team orders are actually a form of collusion. im not sure they can be dressed up any other way. |
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Home, is where I want to be but I guess I'm already there I come home, she lifted up her wings guess that this must be the place |
29 Nov 2016, 19:39 (Ref:3692183) | #215 | |||
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I also do not approve of the orders for one driver to pull over so that the favoured driver in the team can win, especially when the win would be undeserved. However, this was an exceptional case where the team was actually instructing the lead driver to speed up, to ensure that his team-mate and him were out of harms' way from a potentially faster rival. |
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29 Nov 2016, 19:42 (Ref:3692186) | #216 | |||
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today it is different in that the size of the budgets, the involvement of multinationals, satisfying sponsors and generating flattering headlines means its impossible to separate team orders from the teams need to satisfy their commercial interests. no doubt those motives existed in the past as well but the balance is so much more towards the money side of things that following team orders is, now days, inherently a much less noble (for lack of a better word) action. |
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Home, is where I want to be but I guess I'm already there I come home, she lifted up her wings guess that this must be the place |
29 Nov 2016, 19:44 (Ref:3692188) | #217 | ||
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indeed.
i guess the difficult part of this for me is not so much about Merc's relatively benign suggestion that LH speed up but much more about the reopening a can of worms surrounding some of the more dubious and/or extreme recent examples of team orders at play. its 'a slippery slope' kind of line of thinking i am having here |
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Home, is where I want to be but I guess I'm already there I come home, she lifted up her wings guess that this must be the place |
29 Nov 2016, 21:39 (Ref:3692212) | #218 | |||
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If you're racing a car in front of you and a faster car comes up from behind, you are now forced into concentrating on the car behind you. Your aggressive, attacking posture now becomes defensive, slowing your overall lap times because you're now not racing on the racing line, so you're not going as fast as you possibly can through the corner. You are also not braking at the optimal point. This is what Hamilton was working towards. He knew with his reduced speed in the corners that he'd have a lot of tire left to contain Vettel's challenge, had Vettel caught up to him (Hammy would've been GONE once Rosberg started his defensive braking maneuvers). Both Rosberg and Vettel had one issue to contend with that Lewis didn't-excessive tire wear from following/attacking a competitor. If Rosberg is passed by Vettel and Versteppen seizes the opportunity...Hamilton's champ. ...Then, to hear those orders from his team-especially a team with 'racers" at the top level, I'm sure, gutted him! I would have been ****ed too! Other than at the start, when have you seen a late race, double overtaking maneuver from the top four teams? Hey the Constructors championship was already decided several races back. This was a VERY inappropriate call! Now, if the team knew for a fact that Rosberg was going to take out Hamilton if Rosberg got backed up and overtaken (thus securing the championship, e.g., Senna/Prost) and didn't want the damnation that would have caused, then I'd understand broadcasting that team order (not that Rosberg would do that). |
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29 Nov 2016, 22:24 (Ref:3692226) | #219 | |||
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If one thing has been proven over all the years that he has been in F1, it is that he is not a thinking driver. He has never been able to create a strategy whilst behind the wheel, and he has always relied on his pit team to devise his actions. And it's not my opinion that I am stating concerning his refusal to follow his team's directions; this is what they are saying. They were all concerned that the win might be taken from them, and that is why they escalated the radio call to come from Paddy Lowe. And Wolff has also said that it was a good thing that he doesn't have the facility to speak directly to the drivers, otherwise he might have said a few choice words. One thing that seems to have been apparent is that, whilst they shared their joy at Rosberg finally achieving his first WDC, they are underneath seething about Hamilton's total lack of care about whether he won or not, all because he was throwing a hissy-fit over the fact that it was becoming evident that he was not going to retain his crown. |
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29 Nov 2016, 22:28 (Ref:3692227) | #220 | ||
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Farina and Fangio drove Alfa Romeos in 1950 and 1951, respectively... Fangio, of course, won F1 titles driving a Maserati, but some years later; 1954 (he also drove Mercedes that year) and 1957.
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30 Nov 2016, 02:38 (Ref:3692263) | #221 | ||
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LOL! There you go again The whole world knows why Hamilton slowed down. |
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30 Nov 2016, 03:16 (Ref:3692264) | #222 | ||
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BOOOOOBEEEC! You're alive! Where have you been?Miss you!
Last edited by 2GRX7; 30 Nov 2016 at 03:17. Reason: wrong attachment |
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30 Nov 2016, 03:27 (Ref:3692270) | #223 | ||||
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So back to Hamilton. I feel like a true legend would not have approached it that way. I think he could have tried to focus more on trying to trick Nico into trying to pass him, and then put him into a trap. Yes, it's risky. given the points and the possibility of contact and retirement, but that's also true for Nico. And it would have been racing. |
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30 Nov 2016, 03:29 (Ref:3692271) | #224 | |
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30 Nov 2016, 03:36 (Ref:3692272) | #225 | |||
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