2005 Spa 24 Hours

[lj79]

It looks very tight at the top, and not much to choose. Can't wait for next weekend - just hope it doesn't **** down like it did in 2003 and 2001.

I do think that the lead GPC 575 is a real dark horse as well.

[TheNewBob]

With whom will Bouchut be driving at Larbre?

Originally Posted by lj79

Me, I'll still be cheering on my beloved Lister Storm however

Good, good man! Even now, of all the cars running in FIA GT now, the Lister is still my all-time favourite - especially since the LM600's disappeared a good while ago now...

[19dodge]

Bouchut will drive with Gardel/Molkens and Vosse.

That lineup is the strongest 550 one for sure. The Cirtek still has the 2 Russian's (no offence to them, they just are not up to the pace of a Bouchut or Lamy)

I think it will be a fight between the 2 Aston's , Nr 11 Larbre Ferrari, the 2 Vitaphone Mazza's, and the Nr 15 JMB mazza

[SALEEN S7R]

The Labre entry dosent look so strong to me, sure theres Bouchut and Gardel, but Vosse and Molekens arent exactly stars, IMO. And how good really is Gardel? Sure he finished joint 2nd in the drivers championship last year and hes doing well this year too, but how much of that was down to Bobbi last year, and him having Lamy as a co driver this year?

Sure Cirtek has the 2 russians in the car, but they are getting faster recently and this entry has 2 drivers who are amongst the best in the grid IMO in the shape of Minssasian and JCW. Will be a good race for sure.

[19dodge]

Graham Nash has withdrawn his Nr 7 entry. Lack of paying drivers? The Nr 8 entry is still there, but its really just a RML effort, for Tommy Erdos, Mike Newton and Michael Mallock.

Meanwhile, there has been a slew of cars changing over to the G2 class. The most significant is the Force One Viper. 3 or 4 other Porsche teams in GT2, also switched over. That leaves us with 8 GT2 cars and 10 G2 cars. I guess many of the GT2 teams were scared that they could not get a good result with the two GruppeM Porsches in that class...

[Jeffrey-Lee]

Originally Posted by SALEEN S7R

And how good really is Gardel? Sure he finished joint 2nd in the drivers championship last year and hes doing well this year too, but how much of that was down to Bobbi last year, and him having Lamy as a co driver this year?

Well I found his driving in the wet at Brno pretty impressive, setting very good laptimes.

[lj79]

Vosse won in 2002 and came 2nd last yr. Good enough credentials for most people.

I still maintain that the lead Larbre entry is very strong. Molekens has made 996 Bi-Turbos go very quick, not an easy thing to do.

The Russian drivers aren't up to it, and I summise that given that they stump up the cash they will both want plenty of time behind behind the wheel, so whatever JCW and Minassian do with the car it's going to be very tough for the team

[SALEEN S7R]

Okay Vosse was in the winning car in 2002, but remember Labre won due to Lister having so many problems, the win was fortunate IMO. As for 2004, yes again he was in the car that came 2nd overall, but IMO that wasnt thanks to him. Unless you beleive he is faster than Salo/Babini/Peter? Answer me this, if Vosse is as good as you say, where is his full time ride this year?

[Graham Goodwin]

Well using that argument where is Mika Salo's full time drive Saleen? - Surely you're not implying that he isn't quick enough to attract full season interest?

Vosse btw has got a full season deal, in the LMP2 Belmondo Courage in the LMES, a car in which he won the Monza 1000kms. Don't forget he also came home 4th in GT1 at Le Mans this year (in the first of the 55os) If all of this is down to luck then he seems a pretty lucky guy - I might get him to but my next lottery ticket for me!

[Duffacus]

I rate Vosse quite highly. And he does have a full time ride - He races Pertti Kuismanen's Viper in Belcar... They currently lead both Drivers and GT Championship divisions

[Fan24hspa]

Vosse is a very good but unknow driver. Don't forget, he drove the Ferrari Larbre more than 13 hours at Le Mans this year (he finishes 4th in GT1) and he won the LMP2 in Monza this month. Unfortunatelly, he hasn't sponsor "to buy" a complete season in a top team. In 2004, he was faster than Peter and as faster than Babini.

[SALEEN S7R]

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

Well using that argument where is Mika Salo's full time drive Saleen? - Surely you're not implying that he isn't quick enough to attract full season interest?

Vosse btw has got a full season deal, in the LMP2 Belmondo Courage in the LMES, a car in which he won the Monza 1000kms. Don't forget he also came home 4th in GT1 at Le Mans this year (in the first of the 55os) If all of this is down to luck then he seems a pretty lucky guy - I might get him to but my next lottery ticket for me!

Ah but Salo's pedigree is surely not in question? After all he has been in many top teams during his F1 career and last year was a factory Maserati driver. I am well aware of where Vosse finished at Le Mans Graham, but that was mainly due to attrition, not pace. And again, what major races has Vosse ever won? Im talking class wins at Sebring, PLM, Spa 24hrs, Le Mans etc. Sure hes in a LMP 2, but that class isnt the most competitve in the LMES grid IMO. Or are you suggesting that Vosse is as fast as Salo and Babini? His CV certainly woudnt suggest that IMO.

Im not saying Vosse isnt a good driver, just IMO hes not as fast as most of his team mates.

[SALEEN S7R]

Originally Posted by Fan24hspa

Unfortunatelly, he hasn't sponsor "to buy" a complete season in a top team. In 2004, he was faster than Peter and as faster than Babini.

If he is so good then surely potential sponsors would be queing at his door? Other drivers, professional drivers, dont seem to have problems securing funding after all...

[Graham Goodwin]

Originally Posted by SALEEN S7R

If he is so good then surely potential sponsors would be queing at his door? Other drivers, professional drivers, dont seem to have problems securing funding after all...

That is the single most uninformed comment I have read this week - There is a VERY long list of worthy and highly talented drivers that constantly struggle for backing on both sides of the Atlantic.

It seems that at least three teams this season, all of whom have place him in competitive drives, would disagree with your assessment of Vosse and I'd say that carries rather more weight than your individual 'opinion' wouldn't you?

[SALEEN S7R]

Graham I am well aware that there is a lot of drivers out there at the moment not in competitve drives due to lack of funding, but IMO the best drivers in the sportscar arena have secured rides for 2005. Every year the top drivers all secure drives in 1 series or another, whether it be sportscars, touring cars or single seaters. How often do you see names like Bourdais, Kristensen, Mcnish, Bouchut, Davies, Enge, Massen etc to name but a few (I could list a lot more) out of drives in 1 series or another? Not very often.

The best drivers normally secure full time drives year after year. The less skilled drivers often have problems, unless they bring a lot of money to a team. By the way Graham does Vosse bring any funding to the rides he gets? Also, yes Vosse has driven for 3 teams this year, but why does he only secure 1 off deals like for Le Mans and for Spa? Sure he has the courage ride, but if he is as excellent as you say why does he not compete in both FIA GT and the LMES? Lots of drivers race in both series after all.

Vosse IMO is a average driver, yes hes won a few races, but hes never won any major races or championships to my knowledge. Still, I'll wait and see how well he and Labre do at the Spa 24hrs. A podium IMO isnt on the cards though, maybe a top 6 finish, but I personally would be suprised to see anything more.

[Graham Goodwin]

Originally Posted by SALEEN S7R

How often do you see names like Bourdais, Kristensen, Mcnish, Bouchut, Davies, Enge, Massen etc to name but a few (I could list a lot more) out of drives in 1 series or another? Not very often..

Interesting choices - Two of them, Davies and Maassen don't have season long race deals in 2005 and indeed have one-off deals for Spa only in FIA GT - does that mean they are "average" drivers? Of course not.

Originally Posted by SALEEN S7R

Also, yes Vosse has driven for 3 teams this year, but why does he only secure 1 off deals like for Le Mans and for Spa? Sure he has the courage ride, but if he is as excellent as you say why does he not compete in both FIA GT and the LMES? Lots of drivers race in both series after all. ..

I'm not the one offering an opinion of Vincent's quality, you are. he has, as outlined above, two season long deals in LMES and Belcar and has secured in addition drives in the enduros at LM and Spa - Remember McNish and Kristensen only have 'one-off' deals for the enduros this season, it means nothing other than that they have commitments elsewhere.

Originally Posted by SALEEN S7R

Vosse IMO is a average driver, yes hes won a few races, but hes never won any major races or championships to my knowledge. .

Except of course the very race we're discussing in 2002!

[Eddy V]

Originally Posted by SALEEN S7R

If he is so good then surely potential sponsors would be queing at his door?

Vosse is good, but his main problem is that he is a b**t

[lj79]

[QUOTE=SALEEN S7R]Okay Vosse was in the winning car in 2002, but remember Labre won due to Lister having so many problems, the win was fortunate IMO. QUOTE]


No not the case. Did you go?

IIRC you've never been to a ****ing race.

I am a big Lister fan, but the Larbre Viper was as quick on race pace.

Loads of probs for Lister: - no. VD Poele got clouted early on and lost time, but if you have a chance to study the hour by hour timing you will note that JCW et al could not bring the gap down, before being disqualified. It lost 5 laps after the shunt and by the time it's transmission started to cause difficulties in the 18th hours the gap was 5 laps, having briefly closed to 4 laps.

The 2nd Lister had no problems in the race.

[lj79]

Originally Posted by SALEEN S7R

The best drivers normally secure full time drives year after year. The less skilled drivers often have problems, unless they bring a lot of money to a team. By the way Graham does Vosse bring any funding to the rides he gets? .

Justin Wilson had to list himself on the A.I.M. to raise cash to race.

Marc Hynes (who whipped Button's arse in F3) has had virtually no drives for 4 yrs, until getting a seat with LNT this year.

Jan Lammers hasn't always had regular runs

Wallace couldn't get a seat at Le Mans in 94

Johnny Herbert - where's he?

When Chereau went in to receivership in early 2003, Bouchut was left with a very limited run.

etc, etc, etc

Vosse is personally sponsored by Tag Heuer, Watco and Space.

[19dodge]

Im sure Vosse will perform very well at Spa, with his 3 other great team mates.

The-Paddock.net has our race preview up. you can read it here

[SALEEN S7R]

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

Interesting choices - Two of them, Davies and Maassen don't have season long race deals in 2005 and indeed have one-off deals for Spa only in FIA GT - does that mean they are "average" drivers? Of course not.

As I said "How often do you see names like Bourdais, Kristensen, Mcnish, Bouchut, Davies, Enge, Massen etc to name but a few (I could list a lot more) out of drives in 1 series or another? Not very often." I never said "you never see these drivers out of drives".

Except of course the very race we're discussing in 2002!

My mistake. Care to list any other major achievements of his?

[SALEEN S7R]

Originally Posted by lj79

Justin Wilson had to list himself on the A.I.M. to raise cash to race.

Ah but Justin Wilson DID raise the cash didnt he, and it was a good risk to take. A dominant championship win in FPA and a dominant F3000 championship crown in 2001, Justin Wilson is something special, and hes now proving that in CWS too.

Marc Hynes (who whipped Button's arse in F3) has had virtually no drives for 4 yrs, until getting a seat with LNT this year.

So? Formula 3 means relativly little, Sato also kicked Buttons ass in BF3 - is he now? No, quite the opposite. If Hynes is as good as you suggest why did he not secure a ride for 4 years? Justin Wilson did managed.

[lj79]

If I knew why Hynes hadnt got a drive I would say.

Do you know why Herbert has no drive ?


Not sure how Sato beat Button in F3.

99 was Button's final year in F3 before moving to Williams. In 99 Sato drove a Class B car, joining half way thorugh the season, with Diamond Racing. No official record of any victories.

Please enlighten us all sunshine, or are you making it up...

[SALEEN S7R]

Originally Posted by lj79

If I knew why Hynes hadnt got a drive I would say.

Do you know why Herbert has no drive ?

Who knows, maybe Herbert just hasnt been looking for a ride? Maybe hes decided that hes getting older and doesent want to commit to a full season of racing this year? I find it very hard to beleive that he coudnt get a competitve ride in 2005 if he wanted to do so.

Not sure how Sato beat Button in F3.

99 was Button's final year in F3 before moving to Williams. In 99 Sato drove a Class B car, joining half way thorugh the season, with Diamond Racing. No official record of any victories.

My mistake regarding F3. Unless Im mistaken though Sato did have a better win record than Button did in F3. He was dominant in 2001, and his was strong in 2000 too when he finished 3rd. Oh, and what I meant to say was "Sato kicked Button's ass in terms of results." which he did I will think you will find as Button never won the championship, unlike Sato who did win the championship in 2001 in dominant form. We all slip up in posting content sometimes, I do anyway, that was what I was intending to say. But as I said, Button is now kicking Sato's ass in F1 so F3 records dont count for much. IMO.

[lj79]

Originally Posted by SALEEN S7R

My mistake. Care to list any other major achievements of his?

Won FIA GT race at Zolder in 2000 (with Boris Derichebourg)

2 times winner of Enna 24 Hrs

In 2001 he took 5 podiums in FIA GT. You'll probably question that, but in 2001 Larbre / Lister dominated proceedings, with the mid-season arrival of the Prodrive 550 making it even more difficult for the others to get near.