Acura/HPD's future plans

[Félix]

Originally Posted by littleman

Here's a controversial but informed prediction:

The new P1 HPD will qualify somewhere on the first 3 rows at Le Mans 2012.

That would mean you have info about the extent and the actual effect of next year's cut on diesel engine performance.

A little less (or more?) controversial: do we agree that the Highcroft ARX-01e would have had a hard time getting within 5 seconds of the diesel times this year?

[TF110]

No. I believe they'd be below 3:30 @LaSarthe.

[littleman]

I'd say about 5 seconds for the Highcroft car, yes.Another team with different drivers could maybe have trimmed that to 3.5 seconds.

[godlameroso]

Does anyone want to explain what kind of aero restrictions for the diffusers have been enacted this year? If they can improve the aero to somewhere around the LMP2 levels of 2008 with the added power they should be able to go faster than 3:30

[carsten66]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

First three rows? You're underestimating Danny Watts my friend. If that car is anywhere near the diesels' pace then it will be banzai-ed onto the front row.

Yep... Strakka giving Audi and Peugeot a good run for their money next year would be absolutely great fun...

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by littleman

Here's a controversial but informed prediction:

The new P1 HPD will qualify somewhere on the first 3 rows at Le Mans 2012.

In the top 6 ..... doubt it . 4th row , 7th or 8th unless the ACo sort their crap oyt , which they have been promising to do for eons , and havent managed it yet .

[Fogelhund]

Perhaps littleman thinks that the Diesels will only run two cars each at LM next year?

[littleman]

Allow for some tweaking of the regs, and replace the word Strakka with the word Honda, and suddenly it doesn't sound so ridiculous.

[Fogelhund]

Perhaps littleman thinks that the Diesels will only run two cars each at LM next year?

[AGD]

It will be interesting to see what strategies are played next by Strakka next year. If they feel that they have a comfortable edge over the other petrol runners, is there any chance that they may sandbag a little in the hopes of getting a favorable adjustment before Le Mans? Or will they push hard knowing that the diesel drivers are known for making mistakes lately?

Either way, it'll definitely be interesting to see what the other petrol teams do knowing they will have to contend with the HPD. They may be forced to up their game because the HPD may prevent them from getting any sort of charity regulation adjustment. I'm not expecting miracles, especially with a gentleman driver, but I think Strakka could run competitively in qualifying especially on the lower speed tracks. Heck, the LMP2 Strakka HPD beat out the Oreca 908 HF in qualifying for pole at Hungary last year.

[davehenrie]

I think folks are not taking into consideration the difference between Sebring and Le Mans. Sure the 01e was impressive, but if there were not regular full course yellows bunching up the field, the Highcroft car would never have been on the same lap as the diesels for most of the race. The LM yellow flags are different, the field is actually strung out and artifically separated at three points. Barring a supplier melt-down like the Pugs had a couple of years ago, the 01e would have faded into irrelevance. Clearly it would have been the class of the Petrol field, but no-where close to the diesels.
dh

[AGD]

Originally Posted by davehenrie

I think folks are not taking into consideration the difference between Sebring and Le Mans. Sure the 01e was impressive, but if there were not regular full course yellows bunching up the field, the Highcroft car would never have been on the same lap as the diesels for most of the race. The LM yellow flags are different, the field is actually strung out and artifically separated at three points. Barring a supplier melt-down like the Pugs had a couple of years ago, the 01e would have faded into irrelevance. Clearly it would have been the class of the Petrol field, but no-where close to the diesels.
dh

I don't think anyone thinks that the ARX-01e could have competed for the race win, but the question is how well it and the ARX-03a can do in qualifying. I'm not going to make predictions until we see how much testing is being done and so forth, but I suppose it is within the realm of possibility that Strakka could outqualify one diesel car. It's probably a fairly slim shot though, but we'll see how this program is progressing. I wonder if Strakka (or another possible HPD LMP1 customer) will do some testing in the US this offseason? Highcroft was doing the LMP2 testing for HPD this year even though there was no plans for Highcroft to ever race the LMP2 engine, but Highcroft was still a semi-works program at the time. That's not the case now.

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Perhaps littleman thinks that the Diesels will only run two cars each at LM next year?

Yaknow ..... people keep going on about the spirit of the rules .

While there is/was a Audi Sport North America , there wasnt a Total Pug seperate team .

Both Audi and Pug are taking the pizz with 3 car entries . 2 max , as the rules say ..... in the spirit of the rules . It would open up the race a little ..... and possibily allow another quality entry , or at least a decent enthusiast .

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by AGD

but the question is how well it and the ARX-03a can do in qualifying

4 to 5 seconds off the pace I reckon .

[Félix]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Yaknow ..... people keep going on about the spirit of the rules .

While there is/was a Audi Sport North America , there wasnt a Total Pug seperate team .

Both Audi and Pug are taking the pizz with 3 car entries . 2 max , as the rules say ..... in the spirit of the rules . It would open up the race a little ..... and possibily allow another quality entry , or at least a decent enthusiast .

While we're talking about entry numbers, there could very well be more than 6 top flight diesels next year. Audi came very close to regretting entering "only" 3 cars.

On the subject of spirit of the rules, they could also ask for better control on the black diesel exhaust smoke that the rules say should not be there. It would be an elegant way to steal a bit of performance from the diesels... that's if the ACO ever becomes serious about the issue.

[isynge]

To get into the top 6 you only need to beat one of the diesels. Appreciate this is a tall order but Charouz managed it in 2008.

I wouldn't laugh this one completely out of court just yet...

[isynge]

Double post

[TF110]

The car that raced Sebring was NEVER tested, it first ran at Sebring. Put that together with more testing, a better car and you equal something I think has the possibility of spoiling an all diesel party. Top 6 definitely IMO.

[vyselegend]

I'll take a risky bet and state the car will qualify ahead of the AMR-One.

[deggis]

The "2 cars per team" rule is dumb, clearly ACO has understood that but it should be officially abolished too.

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by isynge

To get into the top 6 you only need to beat one of the diesels. Appreciate this is a tall order but Charouz managed it in 2008.

I wouldn't laugh this one completely out of court just yet...

Well, they would have needed to find nearly 7 seconds over the quickest petrol car in qualifying this year.

[isynge]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

Well, they would have needed to find nearly 7 seconds over the quickest petrol car in qualifying this year.

True, but only a couple of seconds to get ahead of Oreca, although appreciate that doesn't get the P6 we're talking about...

There are all sorts of permutations to chuck in there, such as whether the HPD is better than the other chassis out there, what the engine is likely to be like, and critically whether the feeling that a lot of us who saw inside Audi in June had, i.e. that it's not down to regs, it's down to investment and focus, is correct.

Maybe this is me just being (as I often seem to be) an optimist, but I genuinely think the HPD package is something worth getting excited about.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by deggis

The "2 cars per team" rule is dumb, clearly ACO has understood that but it should be officially abolished too.

It's a dumb rule since it is not truly enforced. I could see the advantages of enforcing the rule, but then again, adding more Peugeots and Audis adds more potential race winners. On the other hand, full season competitive LMS LMP2 teams and so forth should have a shot at getting into the race as well. It's hard to say what they should do.

Originally Posted by Bentley03

Well, they would have needed to find nearly 7 seconds over the quickest petrol car in qualifying this year.

Which may sound tough, but the Strakka ARX-01c LMP2 car was more than 7 seconds faster than the fastest non-HPD powered LMP2 car at Le Mans qualifying in 2010. The LMP2 engines from that era are now the LMP1 engines. So maybe it is feasible, although I'm sure Audi and Peugeot are upping their game significantly this off-season as well.

[littleman]

Let's try and put the Strakka/Honda development/performance capability to the test.

At Paul Ricard,back in April,their P2 car qualified absolute last in class, 4.7 seconds slower than the Oreca-Nissan.Fast forward to Silverstone in September and the same car and engine qualified on pole by a clear 1.3 seconds.But for a clash with the Corvette it would have won the P2 class by at least a lap.

OK, it had a small restrictor break from Spa onwards but that was never going to find 6 seconds alone.

Next years V8 may be based on the P2 engine they ran in 2010 but that's the only similarity.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by littleman

Let's try and put the Strakka/Honda development/performance capability to the test.

At Paul Ricard,back in April,their P2 car qualified absolute last in class, 4.7 seconds slower than the Oreca-Nissan.Fast forward to Silverstone in September and the same car and engine qualified on pole by a clear 1.3 seconds.But for a clash with the Corvette it would have won the P2 class by at least a lap.

OK, it had a small restrictor break from Spa onwards but that was never going to find 6 seconds alone.

Next years V8 may be based on the P2 engine they ran in 2010 but that's the only similarity.

I believe the ARX-03a will use the same 3.4L V8 engine as the 2010 LMP2 HPD. There may be some new modifications, but the engine will be essentially the same. At least that is what I believe to be true.

As far as Strakka's performance with the V6 LMP2 this year, they have had some good performances this year especially in qualifying. Granted, the breaks have helped them a lot, but arguably those breaks corrected bad rules to begin with. Anyway, Strakka has done pretty well with a non-cost-capped car going up against cars that mainly run to cost-capped rules. That's pretty impressive work for Strakka. I doubt the non-cost-capped parts they are running are giving them a performance advantage that outweighs the restrictions put against them.