Iain's (Delta Racing Car) Builder's Tea Break 2015

[morninggents]

Thanks, Mike. I knew somebody on this thread would have the answer.
I was looking to see when the Lancia Fulvia Coupe was homologated and in to which group. I see from the list it was homologated with 1216cc engine on 01.01.66 in Group 1 so I assume it was homologated as a Touring Car (rather than a GT) - is that right?

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by morninggents

I was looking to see when the Lancia Fulvia Coupe was homologated and in to which group. I see from the list it was homologated with 1216cc engine on 01.01.66 in Group 1 so I assume it was homologated as a Touring Car (rather than a GT) - is that right?

Second column refers to homologation category, in the case you mention Gp1, or 'series production touring car'. We all imagine this means saloon, but in fact a car could have had closed or open / convertible coachwork....

[Mike Bell]

Back to lighter stuff, rushed into a well known supermarket as the DVD of the recent 'Minions' film has just come out. So that's Christmas viewing sorted, along with DM1 & 2....

[Tim Falce]

Wife had a flat tyre today so I went to her work to put the spare on which was five minute job I thought, twenty minutes later and I was still faffing around trying to release the spare from under the car.
It's a Clio Mk3 and it has a fancy mechanism in the boot that you somehow wind the spare down underneath the car. Well I couldn't work it out, you unscrew a white knurled plastic thingy and then push on a big plastic lever to release the wheel but it doesn't quite work that way. Well after half an hour fiddling in and under the car, a phone call to one of uncle Eric's mechanics and then to the RAC it seems you don't push the plastic lever you have to hit it as hard as you can with the palm of your hand or a sledge hammer.
Once the wheel was down it was a five minute job to change, in the meantime I was soaked through to the skin, and as I looked in the boot I saw the instructions written on the cover for the jack that I'd thrown in the corner when I started, should've told her to phone the RAC and get them to do it in the first place.

[grantp]

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

... to put the spare on ....

Tut tut Tim.

You let your wife drive around in a car that is old enough to have a spare wheel?






Worse than that - how demeaning for her in terms of equality that you have failed to provide sufficient encouragement and training resource to enable her to change her own wheel!

[delta]

My old cargo race truck had a fancy winch for letting the spare wheel down . Just thought you all should know . Still raining here in Cornwall so we are now at the cinima watching lady in a van . Rings a bell . Also been to see an old racing chum who has had leukemia . Incredible how he managed to find a 100% match for a doner . A German young lady just amazing what can be done these days . Got to go Mrs Delta giving me the daggers .chuffed he has made full recovery as he paid for the lunch ha ha

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by grantp

Worse than that - how demeaning for her in terms of equality that you have failed to provide sufficient encouragement and training resource to enable her to change her own wheel!

One step at a time Grant, It's taken 30 years of training to get her to actually notice she has a puncture, she used to drive on them until I told her about it or the wheel broke up. Years ago she came home once saying the engine was knocking, how long has it been knocking I asked, for about half an hour she says. When I looked the front tyre was shredded to bits. Not that she'd have bothered stopping even if the engine had actually been knocking.

[GORDON STREETER]

I used to get called out to fit spare wheels (when cars had them) and what used to make me laugh is where people would stop the car, normally it would be round a blind left hand corner or on a narrow lane when (as Tim said) the tyre was completely shredded so they might as well have carried on to a safe place.
As for modem cars without a spare WTF is that all about ! what's the use of supplying a tube of "gunge" and a 12v compressor when the tyre is knackered and normally off the rim anyway ? As for those "skinny" spare wheels, although they will get you out of trouble and are better than nothing I wonder how they can be legal ? as the road regs state that the tyres must be the same size on the same axle ! I wonder if any "jobsworth" copper has ever questioned it ?

I have noticed that more and more cars have tyre pressure monitors fitted and I wonder how long it will be before they are made compulsory ?

[bauble]

Now I know why I drive a 1998 Astra (apart from not having the wherewithall to own better
Mind you the spare wheel and tyre are still in the original condition never having been used.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by bauble

Now I know why I drive a 1998 Astra (apart from not having the wherewithall to own better
Mind you the spare wheel and tyre are still in the original condition never having been used.

That is the difference between now and when I was growing up. Back then, it was not un-common for a car owner to regularly rotate the wheels including the spare so that they all wore evenly. Nowadays, many drivers wouldn't have a clue about how to safely change a wheel, so spare tyres stay rotting (certainly deflated) in the boots of the car, so what is the point in having one?

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by bauble

Mind you the spare wheel and tyre are still in the original condition never having been used.

Tyre aging is a "hidden hazard" because most consumers do not know that tyres expire in six years and it is difficult for most consumers to tell how old a tyre is without deciphering a 4 digit code that is imprinted on the side of the tyre. Fortunately, you can crack the code on the side of a tyre to determine a tyre's actual age.
For most tyres, this expiration date should be six years from the date of manufacture. Tyres age dangerously because of a chemical process commonly referred to as oxidation, which simply means that as the tyre components are exposed to oxygen, the oxygen particles cause the flexible components of a tyre to harden and become brittle. Over time, the tyre will simply fall apart under normal stress, just like an old rubber band. Because this process occurs naturally, it does not matter if a tyre is being used, stored as a spare, or simply waiting on a store shelf for an unsuspecting consumer.

[Nick JM]

Gordon you are spot on. How many people have a "spare" in the garage they have had kicking around for years they put on as a temp and then nail it at 90 mph up the m1 for A family holiday?

On the topic of changing a spare although I am quite capable of doing so I won't. To be frank I'll just call the boys in the flashing Orange light van

The reason? Quite simply the gear you are provided with to change it is not up to muster. I drive a 2 tonne Discovery. I am given a full size spare (which is nice) but a paltry jack to raise it with and a pathetically small right angled bit of nothing to undo the nuts ( which have nearly always oxidised on).

Couple that with the fact it is always raining, likely to be dark and that you are dressed to the nines with family why bother fannying around in the muck when you can get your wife to call the fourth emergency service, sound forlorn and get it done in about twenty mins?!!!!

[grantp]

Yep, the jacks and tools are usually useless. Especially with alloy wheels.

Older tyres are clearly dodgy even if unused. Or indeed especially if unused.

On a motorway one is actively discouraged - in fact it may now be a prosecutable offence? - to change a wheel. Best not to consider it really, especially with the hard shoulders being used as extra lanes.

Before the HATO arrangements really took off and the numbers increased dramatically I did get away with helping a lady in distress who had a flat about 300 yds from an exit. Didn't take long to do and it was better than her waiting for assistance in that situation. That was probably about 12 years ago. I don't think it would be welcomed by the motorway stewards these days.

As for tyre rotation - frowned upon for years. There are those who swear it was just a ploy to sell more tyres.

These days with assymetric tread designs and directional fitting the rotational options would be very limited - front to back on the same side presumably

[bauble]

I assume that the spare tyre, where provided, must also be inspected as part of an MOT, in which case my 17 year old spare, subject to many years of oxidisation, should not be acceptable, but it's age has never been queried.

More stringent regulation is clearly needed, so let us hope that no Civil Servants visit this thread.

[Mike Bell]

I called in to see my my big Sis the other day, and was greeted by the sight of her not that old Golf with a flat rear tyre. Fearing the worst, I opened the tailgate and lifted the boot floor, to find..... a full size spare wheel! 5 minutes work and car was ready for action. Helps when car is 'poverty spec' and has steel wheels as standard.

Porsche have been using a narrow 'deflated' spare tyre for yonks (70s or earlier?) and supplying a pump to inflate. The latter is nearly always missing when you buy an old porker....

As for cans of gunge, my take is that after using it the tyre has to be scrapped as the gunge can't be cleaned out effectively? Guess a fair chance that it would be scrap anyway if punctured close to the edge, but at least there is a 50/50 chance of being able to repair! Trouble is the sort of cars gunge is supplied with tend to have expensive tyres....

[midgetman]

I read that "people" suggest putting new tyres in the rear and rear tyres to the front to get the best life. But I do some marketing work for a guy in the tyre industry so maybe there's vested interest there!

A customer of mine had a 4WD big Audi. Q7? When one tyre was towards the limit they made her replace all 4 to keep the drive profile the same and stop wear on the 4WD system. Cost her the best part of £2k.

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by bauble

I assume that the spare tyre, where provided, must also be inspected as part of an MOT, in which case my 17 year old spare, subject to many years of oxidisation, should not be acceptable, but it's age has never been queried.

More stringent regulation is clearly needed, so let us hope that no Civil Servants visit this thread.

The condition of the spare tyre will not affect the MOT in any way but the wheel condition does. The wheel must not be damaged or have any distortions or cracks. The wheel should be securely attached to the vehicle and no wheel nuts or studs should be missing. Those cars that have the spare wheel on the outside of the vehicle should make sure that it is properly fitted and secure so that it does not fall off when driven

A mate of mine that has a tyre fitting shop often shows me caravan tyres that are scrap with 10 mm of tread on them, some having done probably less than 1000 miles and changed because of age !

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by midgetman

I read that "people" suggest putting new tyres in the rear and rear tyres to the front to get the best life. But I do some marketing work for a guy in the tyre industry so maybe there's vested interest there!

A customer of mine had a 4WD big Audi. Q7? When one tyre was towards the limit they made her replace all 4 to keep the drive profile the same and stop wear on the 4WD system. Cost her the best part of £2k.

I've never held with the 'swapping tyres front to back to prolong their wear' theory.
I find (on my front wheel drive car) that the front tyres, because of steering etc. wear with a rounded profile, and the rears (which are generally just holding the back of the car up and following along) wear with a very square profile. So, if I was to put my 'squared' rear tyres onto the front, I would have less grip whilst the tyres wear to the rounded profile, and similarly the 'new' rear tyres would just be running on the (rounded) centre of the tread.
The only time I will consider swapping them around is when I fit new tyres. As my fronts do all of the driving, the steering and most of the braking, I always fit the best (new) tyres to that end of the car.

[bauble]

Originally Posted by midgetman

I read that "people" suggest putting new tyres in the rear and rear tyres to the front to get the best life. But I do some marketing work for a guy in the tyre industry so maybe there's vested interest there!

A customer of mine had a 4WD big Audi. Q7? When one tyre was towards the limit they made her replace all 4 to keep the drive profile the same and stop wear on the 4WD system. Cost her the best part of £2k.

I have found it to be a common ploy with tyre fitters, to tell you that you need new tyres whenever you use them. Take in a punctured tyre for repair and they will tell you need two new ones.

I had new tyres fitted on all four wheels, and three years later when I took the car in to the same place for a tracking check the fitter told me that the tyres needed replacing as they were more than five years old. So was he trying a con, or had they sold me tyres two years into the five year cycle?

Either way I only had one replaced, but it makes me wary of taking 'advice'.

I once had a friend who ran a tyre and exhaust centre, and he told me that for every new tyre sold by the fitters they earned a bonus.

Older and just a little wiser,

Bauble.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

I have noticed that more and more cars have tyre pressure monitors fitted and I wonder how long it will be before they are made compulsory ?

I thought they were compulsory on new cars, it's certainly part of the MOT for any car manufactured after 2012 (I think) fitted with them.

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

so spare tyres stay rotting (certainly deflated) in the boots of the car, so what is the point in having one?

A spare tyre is for those occasions when you get a puncture and you're not near Quick Fits. My wife gets two or three punctures a year, or clips a kerb and slices the sidewall, I've only ever been able to get one or two tyres of hers repaired.

[grantp]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I've never held with the 'swapping tyres front to back to prolong their wear' theory.
I find (on my front wheel drive car) that the front tyres, because of steering etc. wear with a rounded profile, and the rears (which are generally just holding the back of the car up and following along) wear with a very square profile. So, if I was to put my 'squared' rear tyres onto the front, I would have less grip whilst the tyres wear to the rounded profile, and similarly the 'new' rear tyres would just be running on the (rounded) centre of the tread.
The only time I will consider swapping them around is when I fit new tyres. As my fronts do all of the driving, the steering and most of the braking, I always fit the best (new) tyres to that end of the car.

I was always advise that that was the only way to go for front wheel drive and highly recommended for rwd as well.

I totally agree about the wear pattern - always got extra wear if swapping in the axles. However it was quite a good way to use up end of life for front wheel drive where the rear tyre wear is slight. (Providing one did not leave it too late based on the age of the tyre!).

The current car generally wears both front and read quite evenly across the tread despite being front wheel drive. However I only get about 10k miles from the fronts - not enough long distance motorway stuff and far too many local runs and much manoeuvring.

[Alan Raine]

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

Wife had a flat tyre today so I went to her work to put the spare on which was five minute job I thought, twenty minutes later and I was still faffing around trying to release the spare from under the car.
It's a Clio Mk3 and it has a fancy mechanism in the boot that you somehow wind the spare down underneath the car. Well I couldn't work it out, you unscrew a white knurled plastic thingy and then push on a big plastic lever to release the wheel but it doesn't quite work that way. Well after half an hour fiddling in and under the car, a phone call to one of uncle Eric's mechanics and then to the RAC it seems you don't push the plastic lever you have to hit it as hard as you can with the palm of your hand or a sledge hammer.
Once the wheel was down it was a five minute job to change, in the meantime I was soaked through to the skin, and as I looked in the boot I saw the instructions written on the cover for the jack that I'd thrown in the corner when I started, should've told her to phone the RAC and get them to do it in the first place.

I had the same problem on my daughters Clio. It's just as bad trying to get the spare wheel back into position. You have to pull on the cable to lift the wheel up until it locks in place. it took 2 of us and a lot of swearing. Daft design

[gary396]

Mine is on run-flats which have a 50mph limit / 50 mile range which sounds okay - had a puncture on a previous car with same system so just drove to nearest Kwik-Fit and continued on my journey.

But I often wonder how you managed if they don't have one in stock and you get near your 50 mile limit. Went to Spa last year and considered buying a spare tyre 'just in case' and sticking it in the boot but that would sort of defeat the purpose. So I didn't.

No perfect system these days I suppose.

[midgetman]

I soon switched the ZS to full sized spare. I didn't fancy 50mpg on a crowded motorway on a space saver.

Some friends with an MGF had a tricky problem going on holiday. Had to fit the space saver halfway there, then where did they put the replaced standard wheel? They ended up with it on the wife's lap!

[grantp]

Originally Posted by midgetman

I soon switched the ZS to full sized spare. I didn't fancy 50mpg on a crowded motorway on a space saver.

Oh I don't know Max.

50Mpg on a crowded motorway sound OK to me.