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12 Oct 2017, 21:43 (Ref:3773927) | #2351 | ||
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"They could make the engines simpler and cost effective so all teams can buy them for twopence and it allows more engine manufacturers in. This will result in a boring lack of variety and development." This would be my choice. I want to see racing, and it should be allied with simplified aerodynamics, single plane, narrower front wings for a start. I really don't like the current black box approach to racing, all we know is that the Mercedes PU is significantly better than anyone else, we do not know why or how other than some speculation. So what is the point of having expensive and diverse engineering? Nice way for the manufacturers to milk there racing budget out of the rest of the field through the supply of PUs? P.S. I believe that Ross Brawn is just going to deliver the next logical step in what we currently have! A really horrible result that I will hate! |
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17 Oct 2017, 02:47 (Ref:3774588) | #2352 | |
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Bernie concurs: They haven't done anything
[While the media 'love-in' with Liberty continues, Ecclestone shares the same opinion asForce India's Bob Fernley, and Pitpass. "They haven't done anything yet as far as I can see. They said they wouldn't talk, they would act. They said I talked before doing anything. I didn't. I got things done quietly. All they do is talk.] https://www.pitpass.com/60401/Bernie...to-Switzerland |
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17 Oct 2017, 03:46 (Ref:3774598) | #2353 | |||
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The season is nearly over and Liberty will have gained much from what they have observed. I therefore expect Liberty to start acting before the season is out and continue into the off season and preparing for next year. |
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17 Oct 2017, 07:57 (Ref:3774610) | #2354 | |
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Well Bernie would say that, he’s got to protect his own legacy. Imho, Liberty have done alright so far
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17 Oct 2017, 08:56 (Ref:3774625) | #2355 | ||
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That's the difference between Ad-hoc decision making and long term planning; One you can do quickly but often leads to questionable ill-conceived outcomes, the other takes longer but hopefully produces a higher quality result. |
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18 Oct 2017, 00:14 (Ref:3774763) | #2356 | |
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Well gentlemen, I guess we will see what Liberty Media and Ross Brawn are prepared to do about F1s problems on the 31st October. Probably push the decision 6 months or a year down the road and keep on going like the head protection canopy/halo implementation. Hope they don't! Leadership would be good. |
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18 Oct 2017, 06:22 (Ref:3774796) | #2357 | ||
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Replace F1 cars with F2 cars....problem solved.
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18 Oct 2017, 08:34 (Ref:3774814) | #2358 | |
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I'm just reading the Adam Parr & Ross Brawn book "Total Competition: Lessons in Strategy from Formula One". If I'm reading Ross's words correctly (for those who don't know, the book is written as a transcript of a number of discussions between Parr & Brawn) then he'll be doing what he's always done - observing, gathering info/intelligence, trying to understand the problem *and* those of the 'competition' - before launching anything.
The interesting bit for me here is what 'competition' is when it comes to engines. I don't think it's bikes, or powerboats, or rockets. It's far more likely to be Brawn taking the wide and long view in terms of what's happening socially, politically, and technologically. It could be that there's little change, but I have a tiny expectation that something radical could be on the cards. |
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18 Oct 2017, 12:14 (Ref:3774837) | #2359 | |
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Well Ross I trust to do the right and get the competition closer and the racing better
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18 Oct 2017, 14:49 (Ref:3774867) | #2360 | ||
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well they did hand Bernie his walking papers and that aint nothing!
and, as far as i can recall, we did also see one of the biggest multi team deals ever transpire this season. i cant help but think how this would have played out if BE was still in charge. as it stands currently, my thoughts about the Mclaren/STR/RB/Honda/Renault/driver swap negotiations resulted in a Win-Win for all parties involved. granted i havent heard/read anything about Liberty taking any direct hand in any of this but maybe the hands off approach was the missing ingredient. i have a hard time imagining any negotiation that involves BE ending with a Win-Win for all parties. his style lead to one clear winner and many clear losers. to see otherwise occur this season was a pretty significant change in F1 imo. |
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31 Oct 2017, 09:20 (Ref:3777723) | #2361 | |
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We are shortly due to see an outline of Liberty's plans for F1 in the future primarily the rules for 2021 and beyond.
It looks like there will be some mechanism to control budgets and that we will get engines similar to now but without the cost of the current hybrid that sounds better. http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/132766 |
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31 Oct 2017, 22:03 (Ref:3777836) | #2362 | |
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Good old nothing again.
https://www.pitpass.com/60602/Propos...rmula-revealed Drop MGU-H, propose a committee and more bureaucracy. Same old same old. Well done, NOT! |
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31 Oct 2017, 22:05 (Ref:3777837) | #2363 | ||
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Look familiar? Post #2 of this thread 10 th December 2013.
Quote:
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1 Nov 2017, 05:58 (Ref:3777908) | #2364 | ||
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Shame their dropping the exhaust regen, I thought it neat how it reduced lag.
Drivers control the energy release? I see the attraction, but I hope they can just use what the collect whenever rather than a limited number or time of push to pass opportunities. 3000 more revs is good. |
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1 Nov 2017, 07:47 (Ref:3777916) | #2365 | |
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Improvement for the people who want more noise. Lag they can perhaps address in others ways.
I'm interested in the weight implications of the proposed change. Probably somebody will do a technical estimate on one of the sites the comming days. Thank god they skipped 4wd. If they could get the aero-following problem addressed by 2021 than I would rather just see a gas pedal than tactical deployment. Is more pure to me. Or just make it available on tracks like Hungary and Monaco. |
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1 Nov 2017, 09:37 (Ref:3777939) | #2366 | ||
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If I've read it correctly, yesterday's meeting was just to flesh out further thoughts on the 2021 PUs, and the meeting was therefore also attended by engine suppliers from outside current F1.
There is another meeting to be held on 7th November to discuss other areas of the 2021 cars, and other regulations. |
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1 Nov 2017, 10:21 (Ref:3777951) | #2367 | ||
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I'd prefer it if the amount of KERS energy was based upon how much harvesting they can do. They could then let the drivers deploy it at their discretion. In other words if a driver can handle a car with a more aggressive regen profile, then they should be "rewarded" for that with potentially higher amounts of KERS energy to deploy. As I understand it, the cars which have the higher harvesting are trickier to drive, mainly on the brakes.
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1 Nov 2017, 10:26 (Ref:3777953) | #2368 | |
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Acording to Joe Saward, it seems that other proposals are to change the income share allocation to teams making them equal plus benefits from results/wcc standings and interestingly some of the overall income will go to a development budget, not technical but race/event development so F1 can go to the places it wants to race, not just the highest bidder as before.
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2 Nov 2017, 17:03 (Ref:3778219) | #2369 | |
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Looks like the squabbling has started already...Neither Renault, Mercedes or Ferrari like the proposed engine regs and Ferrari mentioning the possibility of using their veto. Libery Media welcome to F1, getting agreement from this lot 'aint going to be as easy as they thought...and that's before they get to changing the revenue share distribution...
I bet BE has a wry smile, wherever he is now. |
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2 Nov 2017, 21:37 (Ref:3778245) | #2370 | ||
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I think that Bernie took the blame for a lot of things that were not his fault, the technical regulations pertaining to F1 being one of them! Liberty's only real hope is to go and do a deal with the FIA and force it on the asylum's inmates, expecting the teams to agree on anything that decreases their slice of the pie is just unrealistic. |
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3 Nov 2017, 00:38 (Ref:3778271) | #2371 | |
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How does that work? It's my understanding that Ferrari has the veto as part of the current Concorde Agreement which runs through end of 2020. How can they veto regulations that don't come into effect until after their veto rights expire? Granted they would have to have specs agreed upon prior to 2021 season, but I think this is a stretch. I hope Liberty tells Ferrari to kiss their ...
Richard |
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3 Nov 2017, 05:35 (Ref:3778293) | #2372 | ||
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Once again, Ferrari are threatening to quit F1. This is getting boring. No real surprise that they don't like the new changes.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f...future-974190/ |
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3 Nov 2017, 13:16 (Ref:3778350) | #2373 | |
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We always know that regulation changes are a wrangle and those of us of a certain age will remember Max Mosley's tactic of proposing to ban or change a wide range of things as a batering tactic so he could end up with the changes he really wanted, whilst at the same time the teams went away feeling victorious over the FIA for getting so many changes overturned....
Marchionne says thay Ferrari leaving F1 would be a good thing for Ferrari's shareholders. "It would be totally beneficial to the P&L [profits and losses]," he said. "We would be celebrating here until the cows come home" Which is interesting as Ferrari is on course for a 1 billion Euro profit this yearand according to Forbes, Ferrari F1 is worth $1.3bn, by far the most valuable team. The fact that Ferrari don't like the look of the engine regs is one thing, but their mood is unlikely to be improved if (as Joe Sward speculates) Liberty start altering the revenue share, from which Ferrari are the largest benficiary and in 2017 received more money for finishing 3rd in the 2016 WCC than either Mercedes did for winning it and Red Bull for finishing 2nd, due in no small part to the $68M Ferrari receive as a long standing team, the only one to do so. |
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3 Nov 2017, 13:20 (Ref:3778353) | #2374 | |
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Ferrari threatening to quit? Where have I heard this before? Oh yes, several times, usually every 2 or 3 seasons
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3 Nov 2017, 13:52 (Ref:3778356) | #2375 | ||
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Instead of the usual threats from Ferrari, maybe they should be less dismissive of some of these changes. They haven't won the WCC or the WDC since Raikkonen in 2008, despite in recent years having Alonso and now Vettel driving for them. They might actually benefit from them.
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