[WEC] LMP Future Regulations (was Le Mans EVO rules - now hypercar rules)

[FordCosworthPanoz]

http://fourtitude.com/news/motorspor...oss-durheimer/

http://www.yallaf1.com/2012/07/26/vw...ie-up-rumours/


Another Article where it would appear VW is not interested in F1, from the horse's mouth (or one of them). Not sure about Porsche or VW itself, but Monisha Kaltenborn has denied it (http://www.crash.net/f1/news/182706/...e_hike.htmlnow) Peter Sauber has denied it, VW doesn't seem as interested as they once were.

The same website has recently linked Sauber to a possible Volkswagen involvement in F1, with the Swiss team apparently the German brand's second choice should a bid to run with McLaren founder on the clash between the groups' rival road-going sportscars. Although well-informed sources are quoted as stating that the chance of an agreement being struck between VW and Sauber are currently no greater than 30 per cent, talks are said to have taken place between team boss Peter Sauber and VW CEO Martin Winterkorn earlier this year, having been brokered by former Mercedes chief – and long-time friend of Sauber – Jurgen Hubbert.

That's all there is [to the rumours], there's no more to say about it," Kaltenborn insisted. "We are not in further talks. We have [always] made it clear that the financial aspect is very important for us," Kaltenborn continued, "We do not want to go back to the days when you had to pay so much more money for engines."

Any F1 fan can tell you a new VW (VW itself, Audi, Porsche, Even Lamborghini) to F1 rumour pops out about every other week, perhaps the German media should instead be focused on Mercedes'future in Formula 1 or the Future of the German Grand Prix.

[Pingguest]

Originally Posted by deggis

Kinosh!ta's claims were sort of debunked in this thread earlier though.

That is the debate, is it not? Should it no be better to have a set of rules that do not allow such sort of debates?

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Pingguest

That is the debate, is it not? Should it no be better to have a set of rules that do not allow such sort of debates?

Not sure if I understood what you mean, but anyway:

http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....postcount=2275
http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....postcount=2278
http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....postcount=2280

[TRuss]

I'm guessing he means the allowance of F1 engines in the coming years.

[chewymonster]

Originally Posted by Pingguest

That is the debate, is it not? Should it no be better to have a set of rules that do not allow such sort of debates?

So everyone should run the same displacement and number of cylinders and type of aspiration and type of valvetrain. Sounds like NASCAR and F1.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by chewymonster

So everyone should run the same displacement and number of cylinders and type of aspiration and type of valvetrain. Sounds like NASCAR and F1.

Hey, we could even add DRS and get Pirelli with Paul Hemroid as the sole supplier to make the racing 'more exciting.'

[MagVanisher]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

Hey, we could even add DRS and get Pirelli with Paul Hemroid as the sole supplier to make the racing 'more exciting.'

DRS would work unless it's paired up with the "push to pass" feature that uses KERS and electric motors...

[deggis]

LMPs do not have (at least not yet) such big problem following other cars aero-wise, which is the reason DRS was invented.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by deggis

LMPs do not have (at least not yet) such big problem following other cars aero-wise, which is the reason DRS was invented.

I don't think the aero is necessarily what makes the difference. I'd argue that LMPs are on a similar or higher level than DTM in that regard and DTM has/had huge issues with dirty air.

What really helps is multiclass racing, traffic is one hell of an overtaking device.
Same goes for Super GT in Japan - absolutely fantastic racing, but make it single class and it probably becomes as bad as DTM on a bad day. Also saw that when Grand Am had the DP-only borefests.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

I don't think the aero is necessarily what makes the difference. I'd argue that LMPs are on a similar or higher level than DTM in that regard and DTM has/had huge issues with dirty air.

Well, also the fact that Le Mans is mostly large straights, where dirty air doesn't effect a cars ability to overtake as much, as overtaking through corners .

[repa]

Hi guys! I would have a question a little bit off topic: what was the idea behind the older regulations?
I know that LMP era have/had restrictors, boost pressure maximized, etc...
I've tried to search about elder regulations, but i've found nothing. So could someone give me a short summary about them? What was the main idea behind them? I'm mainly interested in the engine regs...

(I need it to a school project, so more to come... But not just questions!)

[deggis]

Originally Posted by repa

Hi guys! I would have a question a little bit off topic: what was the idea behind the older regulations?
I know that LMP era have/had restrictors, boost pressure maximized, etc...
I've tried to search about elder regulations, but i've found nothing. So could someone give me a short summary about them? What was the main idea behind them? I'm mainly interested in the engine regs...

(I need it to a school project, so more to come... But not just questions!)

http://www.mulsannescorner.com has technical regs PDFs from every year since 2001 (end of the page, "chassis rules").

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Mans_Prototype#History gives a decent overview of past years, but no sources cited so be careful.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by repa

Hi guys! I would have a question a little bit off topic: what was the idea behind the older regulations?
I know that LMP era have/had restrictors, boost pressure maximized, etc...
I've tried to search about elder regulations, but i've found nothing. So could someone give me a short summary about them? What was the main idea behind them? I'm mainly interested in the engine regs...

(I need it to a school project, so more to come... But not just questions!)

You will find everything you need here, I believe. Bottom sections of the left hand column of the page.

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/



L.P.

[repa]

Thank you guys! You're very fast!
Of course i know mulsannecorner, and i knew that i can find lot of things there. I think i have not wrote my thoughts correctly, i'm not looking for the LMP era only. What i need is look like this:
1993-2014: LMP era, engine power limited by restrictors
1982-1993: Group C era: limited fuel usage
1975-1981: Gr.5, GTP, Sport categories, etc... limited fuel usage also, predecessors of group C (also no minimal production required from 1972)
1963-1974: Sport categories, and also prototypes, and GT-s. Sports needed 50 and later 25 road going examples, limited ccm.
1949-1962: sport and gt cars. All of them divided into classes by the engine's ccm. But could they do anything with the engine's? There was any reg about restrictors, or fuel usage? I guess no, but i don't know it exactly... Probably limited ccm. Or they were strictly road going engines? Or could they upgraded them a little?
Pre war: cars divided into classes by engine ccm. I think at that time all cars were road-going cars, there were no limitations on engines, but also no modifications allowed.

That's all i could get. But am i correct? I'm only sure in the LMP era, almost sure in Gr. C era, but everything before that is still a mess for me...

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by repa

Thank you guys! You're very fast!
Of course i know mulsannecorner, and i knew that i can find lot of things there. I think i have not wrote my thoughts correctly, i'm not looking for the LMP era only. What i need is look like this:
1993-2014: LMP era, engine power limited by restrictors
1982-1993: Group C era: limited fuel usage
1975-1981: Gr.5, GTP, Sport categories, etc... limited fuel usage also, predecessors of group C (also no minimal production required from 1972)
1963-1974: Sport categories, and also prototypes, and GT-s. Sports needed 50 and later 25 road going examples, limited ccm.
1949-1962: sport and gt cars. All of them divided into classes by the engine's ccm. But could they do anything with the engine's? There was any reg about restrictors, or fuel usage? I guess no, but i don't know it exactly... Probably limited ccm. Or they were strictly road going engines? Or could they upgraded them a little?
Pre war: cars divided into classes by engine ccm. I think at that time all cars were road-going cars, there were no limitations on engines, but also no modifications allowed.

That's all i could get. But am i correct? I'm only sure in the LMP era, almost sure in Gr. C era, but everything before that is still a mess for me...

Have you looked through the historic section for clues?

http://tentenths.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=75



L.P.

[deggis]

Yes, you were a bit confusing because you talked about "LMP" regulations.

Autosport nostalgia forum might also help: http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?showforum=10

[repa]

Okey, first look on ten-tenths historic part, and already found something! I knew that part, but they rather talk about one car, or one person in those topics, not general things. But probably, i could pose my question there...
Will search on autosport forum also.
Thanks for your help!

[gregtummer]

If the ACO doesn't change the rules, we may get close to a 3:20 Le Mans pole time next year.

[MitchZ06]

As long as the average is 3:30 the ACO won't care...

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

As long as the average is 3:30 the ACO won't care...

With 2013 cars being a development of 2012 cars, if the pole time is a 3:20 then the race pace will be somewhere in the 3:23s, which is still insane. But then again, maybe they'll let them have that before the rules change for 2014.

[gustavobamba]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

With 2013 cars being a development of 2012 cars, if the pole time is a 3:20 then the race pace will be somewhere in the 3:23s, which is still insane. But then again, maybe they'll let them have that before the rules change for 2014.

I´m sory but why is a 3:23 lap Insane!!!! I don´t understand.

For me, insane is the gap of top speed between LMP1 and GT cars.
The major accident´s in the pas two years where between LMP1 and GT cars.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by gustavobamba

I´m sory but why is a 3:23 lap Insane!!!! I don´t understand.

For me, insane is the gap of top speed between LMP1 and GT cars.
The major accident´s in the pas two years where between LMP1 and GT cars.

Insane compared to the speeds the ACO want.

[gustavobamba]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

Insane compared to the speeds the ACO want.

The ACO...

Is hard for me understand why ACO want a goal in Lap time!!!

Fuel efficiency, ok but lap times for god sake... but that is just my opinion...

[CTD]

Originally Posted by gustavobamba

I´m sory but why is a 3:23 lap Insane!!!! I don´t understand.

For me, insane is the gap of top speed between LMP1 and GT cars.
The major accident´s in the pas two years where between LMP1 and GT cars.

If you look at the old problem there existed between LMP2's and GT1's top speed, then I don't think it's insane in any way.

Originally Posted by gustavobamba

The ACO...

Is hard for me understand why ACO want a goal in Lap time!!!

Fuel efficiency, ok but lap times for god sake... but that is just my opinion...

Setting a goal lap time is a good way of making sure the cars don't go uncontrollable fast.

[gustavobamba]

Originally Posted by CTD

If you look at the old problem there existed between LMP2's and GT1's top speed, then I don't think it's insane in any way.

Setting a goal lap time is a good way of making sure the cars don't go uncontrollable fast.

You said right, "OLD problem", now the GT cars have different issues´s.

In 2012, Le Mans,we have the follow figure´s:

Slow GT Car (Corvete C6 ZR1) 286 km/h
Fastest GT Car (Ferrari 458) 300.2 Km/h

Slow LMP2 Car (Norma MP 2000) 296,9 km/h
Fastest LMP2 Car (Oreca 03 Nissan) 320.4 Km/h

Slow LMP1 Car (Pescarolo 03) 310,4 km/h
Fastest LMP1 Car (Toyota TS 03) 335.2 Km/h

I know the Norma is under developed but only 1 GT car was faster then all the LMP2 car´s (Ferrari AF corse - 300,2 km/h) and the LMP2 car´s are better handling in corners ( faster´s than GT car´s). This is not an issue like the old GT1 / LMP 2 "battle".

One question? Do you enjoy the 2009 Le Mans Race?

I loved it...