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16 May 2012, 08:38 (Ref:3075163) | #2401 | ||
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16 May 2012, 08:39 (Ref:3075164) | #2402 | ||
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16 May 2012, 10:40 (Ref:3075211) | #2403 | |
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in the reality porsche has a complex structure, the head is porsche SE, this holding company own almost the 51% of wolkswagen AG (that is not the wolkswagen group, but the company that produces parts for all wolkswagen brands cars) and the 50% of porsche gmbh. Porsche gmbh own the 100% of porsche AG that is the company that materially project and build the porsche road cars. Wolkswagen AG owns the 50% of porsche AG.
As you can read the relationship between wolkswagen and porsche is a little bit complicated... but surely i can sure that there isn't any relationship between porsche and audi (wolkswagen simply owns 99.5% of audi and his side brands). |
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16 May 2012, 11:21 (Ref:3075229) | #2404 | ||
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In fact VAG own 49.9% of Porsche Zwischenholding GmbH
They do not directly own 50% of Porsche AG . Porsche AG is 100% owned by Porsche Zwischenholding GmbH,which in turn is 50.1% owned by Porsche SE (owned by the Piech and Porsche families and Qatar Holdings). Porsche SE in turn owns 50.7% (voting rights) of Volkwagen AG (along with another 2.37% owned by Porsche GmbH Salzburg) No one said that there is no relationship. What was said is that Porsche and Audi were not the same company. They have the same shareholders. They are in the same group but they are not the same company. Is Seat the same company as Porsche too? Last edited by Spyderman; 16 May 2012 at 11:35. |
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16 May 2012, 12:21 (Ref:3075261) | #2405 | |
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audi and porsche can't be compared because wolkswagen owning the 99.5% of audi and audi brands has the absolute control of the company (and indirectly controls also lamborghini and recently ducati). Can't be said the same of porsche, wolkswagen hasn't the complete and undisputed control on the various porsche companies, but owning around the half of the company can however heavily influence the company decision. A clear example is around 2000 when porsche was projecting a new lmp900 but wolkswagen de facto imposed the development of cayenne to the company.
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16 May 2012, 13:42 (Ref:3075283) | #2406 | ||
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Anyone who believes there is no flow of R&D information between Audi and Porsche is seriously delusional....It makes appositely no sense..Even if Audi raced Porsche in 2014 (which I seriously doubt) they would share R&D on major systems like the KERS etc....Which yo can bet your head that Audi's KERS is heavily based on Porsche's KERS, which are both developed by Williams.
They might not share Setup data, or Engine )if audi continues to use Diesel, and porshce gas... but you can bet your money Aero/chassis and KERS is all shared... |
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To launch a new FIA GT2 category based on strict technical rules, with limited wavers and ‘balance of performance' limited to success ballast. A category where GT manufacturers will prove through competition they can produce the best road going GT car. |
16 May 2012, 14:19 (Ref:3075309) | #2407 | ||
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I am not convinced of that.
The KERS flywheel are built by Williams (supplied) but the rest of the system is developed by the client companies. In fact, the Flywheel for the GT3R was built to Porsche specifications. I doubt that Audi's system is based on the Porsche one. Last edited by Spyderman; 16 May 2012 at 14:46. |
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16 May 2012, 16:24 (Ref:3075366) | #2408 | ||
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16 May 2012, 16:40 (Ref:3075367) | #2409 | |||
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The decision was made by Wendelin Wiedeking who was Porsche's CEO at the time. |
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16 May 2012, 20:42 (Ref:3075445) | #2410 | ||
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It's obvius to anuone who doesn't have delusions that its economicly unsound for them to not share information...there is absolutly no reason why they should both pay for the same thing out of the same koffers....
( and no matter how you look at it, they shere enough ownership betwen each other that any money lost by any side hurts the other) ...when they could split the cost between each other, it's simple economics, and contrary to popualr belief Porsche, and Audi are in it for the money, period...They are both corportions with 50+% shares owend between the same people....and the only thing that matter to either it the balance sheet... |
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To launch a new FIA GT2 category based on strict technical rules, with limited wavers and ‘balance of performance' limited to success ballast. A category where GT manufacturers will prove through competition they can produce the best road going GT car. |
16 May 2012, 21:33 (Ref:3075474) | #2411 | ||
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Lets try and keep this thread on the topic of the alms. If any of you want to discuss corporate structure of porsche and audi please take it elsewhere.
Anyways Zytek have tweeted shots of a new car in build, could it be alms bound? |
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16 May 2012, 22:46 (Ref:3075510) | #2412 | ||
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That PLM entry list looks quite, as in incredibly, optimistic. Three Dyson cars? Two Vipers? I want a huge grid as much as the next guy, but some of that is smoke and mirrors. However, would love to be proven wrong.
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16 May 2012, 22:59 (Ref:3075515) | #2413 | ||
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17 May 2012, 01:52 (Ref:3075529) | #2414 | ||
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We should see at least one Viper. Fingers crossed for Aston Martin in GT.
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Somebody asked if the McLaren F1 was going to be like the Ferrari F40, Gordon Murray replied, "I don't think so, there's no one at McLaren who can weld that badly." |
17 May 2012, 02:14 (Ref:3075537) | #2415 | |||
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1) Why Porsche shown the car like a Racing Lab. if this was never going to be race? 2) Which is the weight of the car? If the weight is 900 Kg. I think the car could fight for overall victory in ALMS. I say this because rivals are just private teams, with one strong car like Muscle Milk Honda ARX03A, and I think the aerodynamic disadvantages compared to LMP1 would be fully compensated with the high development of a Porsche factory team, the extra power generated for the hybrid engine and 4x4 traction generated by the front electric engine. |
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17 May 2012, 02:28 (Ref:3075541) | #2416 | |||
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Three Dysons is unlikely, two is probable, and obviously the sixteen will be there. But there are rumors that Dyson will run their second B12/60 post-Le Mans with Abdul Al Faisal paying for it. As for Marsal and Lux, they are scheduled only for the sprint races, though I would anticipate Lux and Marsal would want to do Petit and there would be pressure to add to the P1 grid for a ten hour race. I think it is more likely Eric Lux would get the third seat in the (second of two) B12/60 with whoever is brought in to run with Al Faisal should that car materialize. The only far-fetched or "smoke and mirrors" are the GT3-type cars which we have no reason to believe will have a place to play. Chris |
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Member: Ecurie Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch. EFR & Greg Pickett fan. |
17 May 2012, 14:01 (Ref:3075714) | #2417 | |
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I might be wrong but I reckon that's gone up in smoke after their no-show at Le Mans. At least with Al Faisal.
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17 May 2012, 14:21 (Ref:3075720) | #2418 | ||
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Regarding Dyson, you have to ask yourself why there currently isn't a second (2012) car on the grid, and whom might be the rumoured party. Now Dyson has had that car since Sebring, yet we still don't see it racing. It would seem to me, that an actual agreement has not yet been completed, as why would they still be sitting on the sidelines if they've had the car for months. Second, who exactly would sign a deal to run that car now anyway? It is a vastly uncompetitive package, and barring a massive BoP, it is unlikely to become quicker any time soon. I don't think there is an agreement yet, and I don't see one happening anytime soon.
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17 May 2012, 14:22 (Ref:3075721) | #2419 | ||
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17 May 2012, 14:26 (Ref:3075723) | #2420 | |||
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Ceterum censeo GTE-Am esse delendam. |
17 May 2012, 14:33 (Ref:3075726) | #2421 | ||
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Nice avatar Fogelhund!
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17 May 2012, 17:06 (Ref:3075795) | #2422 | ||
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17 May 2012, 17:12 (Ref:3075798) | #2423 | ||
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17 May 2012, 17:55 (Ref:3075814) | #2424 | ||
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You live and learn. At any rate, you live. Douglas Adams |
17 May 2012, 18:34 (Ref:3075829) | #2425 | ||
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