Snetterton Redevelopment Plans (merged)

[youngoldy]

WOW!! This is looking good for British motorsport, i wonder if this will get the BRDC scratching their heads


New hotel


circuit proposes to 3.3 miles

[Al Weyman]

Station or not can you imagine that creaking old single lane A11 after a few thousand spectators and teams all set off at the same time to head back to London or to anywhere apart from Norwich for that matter after a big International meeting.It is a horribly dangerous stretch of road at the best of times.

It is a brilliant idea but I do wonder if the local infrastructure can cope and I also fear this may not help the planning application. Norfolk & Norwich desperately needs a proper motorway system out to the east.

[Andrew Kitson]

There is now only the 9 mile stretch between Thetford and Barton Mills/Mildenhall roundabout that needs dualling on the A11. Can't wait for them to do something about it as I'm always down that road - lots of rumours but not a JCB in sight! The rest is completed.
But agree entirely Al, we are not very good at east-west motorways in this country. We need a proper motorway from Gt.Yarmouth via Norwich-Cambridge-Bedford-Milton Keynes-Oxford-Swindon to the M4/Bristol/Cardiff. Think how easy it would be then to link Snett/Silverstone/Thruxton/Combe/Pembrey (apart from the fiddly Welsh bit!) as most of our racing industry would come somewhere near it.

[touringlegend]

I think the new proposals look ace, for I have always thought Snetterton to be a fairly neutral circuit on the whole, IMO of course.


I've been lucky enough to witness the old Russell chicane in old saloon /touring car reviews, boy did it look a right corker!

[greenamex2]

Hurrah for the investment and not just selling it to land developers.

Boo for the inevitable cost increase for us competitors.

Is this going to mean that the circuit is going to be out of action for a while?

[Al Weyman]

Not necessarily Dennis, if they start making proper money may be they might even lower the fees (yeah right I here everyone say) :-)

[Andrew Kitson]

In the really old days, Snetterton never had a Russell. After Coram the track had a gentle left hander to the pit straight called Paddock bend. As speeds went up the faster cars would drift further out towards the pits at the exit of this left hand sweep. My old man told me that he often nearly lost the pit board when signalling as cars brushed past him without a barrier between pit lane and track! A tight Russell was put in around 1965 to put the cars on the left hand side of the pit straight when passing, away from the pit lane, but to also slow them down as the timekeepers could not keep pace! In 1967 Russell was eased to everyone's favourite version of it, the almost flat out kink used until the end of the 80s although it was 'tweaked' here and there in this time.
The mechanics had a similar 'pit board' problem at Mallory, the pit lane used to be right at the exit of Devil's Elbow by the finish line and as a kid I remember seeing a Mini take the pit board out of one chap's hands - 1966 I reckon.

[Andrew Kitson]

Originally Posted by Denis Bassom

Hurrah for the investment and not just selling it to land developers.

Boo for the inevitable cost increase for us competitors.

Is this going to mean that the circuit is going to be out of action for a while?

Word is most of the new infield stuff can be done without affecting the normal running of meetings. With work due to start (subject to planning of course) in about a year's time, most would be done in the winter '06/07 I guess. I also hear the proposed hotel will not be 'EasyJet' orange as in the computer graphic!

[greenamex2]

Sounds good so far.

Maybe I'm just a born sceptic but I keep looking for the 'catch'.

[Snapper Baz]

I was under the impression or heard a rumour that perhaps the circuit was going to go straight on after the left handed Esses bit taking the circuit up towards the Sunday Market area (as in the old days) and back towards the Bombhole. A shame as this seems to have been incorrect now and would have made for some interesting extra bits.

[Andrew Kitson]

[QUOTE=Andrew Kitson]In the really old days, Snetterton never had a Russell. After Coram the track had a gentle left hander to the pit straight called Paddock bend.
QUOTE]
Smart ar*e time - how Snett has changed.
Note the first short version 1974. The new Esses was a fast left/right kink until a couple of nasty accidents against the vehicle bridge supports. The Esses were then tightened as today. Shows how the proposed layout will be a radical change.

[touringlegend]

It was certainly a fairly odd shaped circuit in the old days. Interesting to note how much tighter it has got over the years with the proposed layout the tightest by far.

[Andrew Kitson]

When it first opened, the shape was determined by the perimeter roads of Snetterton Heath aerodrome.

[snetmarshal]

Mr Kitson, sir, (by the way how are you?) think it is time you did a book on the circuit!! dont think there are many people with better knowledge, and could be the right time for such an item!

[Andrew Kitson]

No no no, not me Andy! Others know far more. Anyway fine mate..you?
The late Peter Swinger knew it very well, as in his book 'Motor Racing Circuits in England Then and Now'. Then there is ex-circuit commentator Norman Greenway, Ralph Firman Sr, and local snapper Richard Styles who has probably covered every meeting since the mid 60s. And bet your bottom dollar Marcus Pye knows more than all of us put together...

[MikeHoyer]

I have that book by Peter Swinger, it's superb.

I was just thinking though, looking at the track layout primarily, how's it all going to fit in? Snetterton is that big, I'm wondering where the run-offs that will no doubt be needed for big events in this day and age will go?

I'm also wondering if the massive earth bank that's been put up this year on the outside of the Revett straight will have anything to do with this...

[Terry Scannell]

Originally Posted by touringlegend

It was certainly a fairly odd shaped circuit in the old days.

My introduction to marshalling was as course/incident marshal then flaggie on the Old Hairpin at the end of the Norwich Straight and leading onto the Home Straight towards the Esses.

The sight of a full grid of cars whether F5000's, F3's, Formula Fords or saloons hammering towards you then all trying to be the king of the late braker's into the tightish hairpin was always entertaining. The battle between Brian Redman in a McLaren and Frank Gardner in a Lola T330 which unfortunately ended up side by side nose into the bank on the outside of the left hander into the old Esses being something I will never forget!

The Russell kink 67 to 73 was also awesome with the flag point right in the middle of the cormer on top of the track with the cars coming through mostly flat out at your feet as it were.

I would guess that the earth bank along Revett is for several reasons, firstly as a possible spectator viewing bank allowing people to see the new Riches /Sear complex, secondly to deflect/absorb noise especially when the new hotel, business park is in place, and thirdly to prevent non-paying spectators / photographers from the market site.

Terry

[Andrew Kitson]

Mike, there is a lot of space on the infield at Snett. Plenty of room for the run-offs required. It has long been under-used, the occasional big meeting to turn it into a campsite. The earth bank along Revett is indeed for spectators, but also to help keep noise in and as Terry says, to stop the market lot seeing the action (albeit from afar) for free!
The grass area behind the bank up to the market perimeter fence will be the car park I guess. I was there Monday, the digger was busy finishing off the earth bank at Sear end. Great days agree Terry. I too remember the F5000 incident. I also remember sitting in the Esses stand in 1967 (at the later named 'Bombhole') when a Mini got it wrong, barrel rolled along the road to Coram. The driver emerged unscathed from his inverted car, threw his helmet down in a rage and kicked the Mini - hard - to great applause! Fuel was pouring from the filler cap all over the road but no fire luckily. The driver then appeared to collapse. It Turned out he broke his foot kicking the car!

[graeme]

Originally Posted by Andrew Kitson

The late Peter Swinger knew it very well, as in his book 'Motor Racing Circuits in England Then and Now'.

Oh, I didn't realise that Peter Swinger had died. The introduction to the book eludes to a second volume (Wales, Scotland, Ireland, etc) which I was waiting with baited breath for...

[snetmarshal]

With regard to run offs, that shouldnt be a problem, as I beleive various fields around the circuit are now owned by MSV and therefore exsiting run off areas can be increased.

You are too modest Mr Kitson, you have a very good knowledge and a very good bank of photographs as well! And the tales you and Terry have of past races (before i was born i may add ) are really interesting. Altho with that comment I can see neither of you will be wanting to tell me any more!! LOL

[Al Weyman]

I love that Mini story Andrew, some people (drivers) can really make pratts of themselves sometimes thats for sure.

[greenamex2]

I fell off the A127 once, ripped both the sides of the car and turned the saloon into a hatchback. Got out the car totally unscathed, punched it and broke a knuckle. I haven't physically attacked a vehicle since, you usually come off worse!

[Andrew Kitson]

I also have a vague memory of seeing a horrendous shunt at the Esses ( again bombhole) where the car in question seemed to explode into a million pieces, but no fire. The driver was thrown out and landed sitting on the grass bank at the side unscathed! A bit young at the time, no idea on year but was told later it was Jackie Oliver in the wooden framed Marcos. Terry remember that one?

[HiRich]

The track layout changes look fine (though i am no track designer. I'm not Herman Tilke, either...). Getting rid of the Chicane is right (I always felt it Senna Straight needed to be preceded by a corner that requires you to plant your right foot by the apex and hang on), and the other changes appear reasonable.
I'm more interested in the other facilities. All sound right, but execution and use is critical. I've always felt that Snetterton was the rough diamond in the MSV deal, with huge potential.
In the middle of nowhere (minimal nimyism)
Huge catchment area, minimal competition, and access is better than you first think (excepting that small stretch of the A11) - the potential is for a motorsport centre for the region drawing in all the related businesses.
So I would hope to see
- The "School loop": Make it available for cheap shakedown test & demos (for club racers, perhaps on an "arrive & pay by the hour" basis?)
- Business Park: Brilliant. Get all sorts of key businesses and services to cover all aspects of motorsport servicing. You will then get racers turning up on non-race days to get their bits. But key is getting the right selection of businesses in - a Demon Tweeks superstore? A fabricator, a panel-beater? It's not just about getting teams in there - create a shopping village where I can get all my bits & pieces sorted (and that may apply wheher I'm a professional or amateur race driver, a sports car driver, perhaps even a Max Power Muppet). Put it all in one place, and i'll go there on a shopping trip.
- Hotel: My impression is that the area is not particularly well serviced for rooms (not of the type that competitors want). I suspect this will turn out as a bland Novotel (like a certain Kent-based hotel Mr P will know well). I would hope it could be built as a comfy 'clubhouse' cheap rooms (excepting major events), simple pie & a pint, encourage campers to wander in (maybe food, but definitely a pint) so the craic is good). On race (and trackday) eve, it will be rammed with like-minded individuals, which will mean good occupancy through the week and year. Easy to describe, but difficult to achieve.
- Conference Centre: I'm not convinced, but if demand exceeds supply, go for it!
- Train Station: Err... OK. Not convinced, but I like his thinking by considering a non-car form of access.

[Rob29]

Originally Posted by Andrew Kitson

I also have a vague memory of seeing a horrendous shunt at the Esses ( again bombhole) where the car in question seemed to explode into a million pieces, but no fire. The driver was thrown out and landed sitting on the grass bank at the side unscathed! A bit young at the time, no idea on year but was told later it was Jackie Oliver in the wooden framed Marcos. Terry remember that one?

I was at that meeting,have film of the remains being hauled back into the paddock,and Jackie brushing the splinters out of his hair-wooden chassis! Was about 1962 when we used to go by train to Eccles Road,a mile walk thorough a pig farm and down a runway found the entrance by the hairpin off the A11.