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Old 4 Sep 2003, 19:52 (Ref:708386)   #16
Alain HACHE
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thanks Michael for infos about D Rouveyran .
Now I'm sure that HU01 was not destroy in this accident.
JL Lafosse had an accident with an T280 in practice of 9 H
Kyalami 1972 and the car couldnt start the race . Do you
know something about ?
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Old 4 Sep 2003, 20:01 (Ref:708399)   #17
Alain HACHE
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Jeremy
you confirm to me what I supposed about this car . I think this chassis was probably entered in some races in 1973 by Jolly Club : # 11 at Dijon 1000 Kms , # 10 at Monza 1000 Kms and #12 at the Nurburgring . Perhaps in entry list only # 1 Le Mans 1973 ?
all the best
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Old 4 Sep 2003, 23:26 (Ref:708571)   #18
Jeremy Jackson
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Alain,

The Kyalami T282 was Bonnier-entered and Gitnaes-sponsored and crashed after 3 laps of practice. I would assume it was the Paris chassis.

Autosport's reports say that Jolly Club's 1973 car was hired from Ecurie Bonnier, and entered as a T280. Rouveyran's car was quoted as "ex-BIP", but I don't know which races a BIP-sponsored T280 ran in. Local Portuguese races?

I'll see what else I can find.

Regards

Jeremy
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Old 5 Sep 2003, 13:07 (Ref:709113)   #19
Michael Oliver
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Quote:
Originally posted by Alain HACHE
thanks Michael for infos about D Rouveyran .
Now I'm sure that HU01 was not destroy in this accident.
JL Lafosse had an accident with an T280 in practice of 9 H
Kyalami 1972 and the car couldnt start the race . Do you
know something about ?
Hi Alain

Jeremy has already answered this question - it was indeed a T282 entered by Ecurie Bonnier, crashed by J-L Lafosse and, by all accounts, written off, and probably the prototype as driven by Beltoise/Larrousse at Rouen in October.

Just having a quick look through my old Autosports re the 72 season for clues about chassis numbers:

It appears that HU-02 was driven by Bonnier/Wisell in Buenos Aires, with Larrousse/Craft sharing the prototype HU-01. The magazine reports a plan to sell them and run them for Karl von Wendt being 'apparently quite likely'. However, in the next sentence it says that after the race 'the Wisell car was sold...to a Brazilian driver' but does not say who (one can maybe assume Garcia-Veiga?). This suggests that HU-02 was sold but in fact Wisell drove both cars in the race, switching to the Larrousse/Craft T280 after his own retired. If we know that HU-02 was still with the team at Le Mans, this suggests that they may have sold the older prototype, HU-01, which would make more sense.

However, for the next race at Daytona, Garcia-Veiga was entered in the second car, alongside Craft and Larrousse, so maybe Bonnier did a deal such as suggested with von Wendt, e.g. they sold the car but continued running it for Garcia-Veiga and pairing him with their own drivers? Alternatively, maybe they never sold the car at all, but struck a deal for Garcia-Vega to drive it (e.g. sold a race drive) at Sebring and this was mis-reported as Garcia-Veiga having bought the whole car!

For Sebring, they are reported as only bringing one car, HU-02, for Bonnier/Wisell/Larrousse. For Round 4 at Brands Hatch, I know 2 Bonnier cars started, as there is a picture of them just after the start of the race. A few other interesting points: "By contrast to all these operations, that of Ecurie Bonnier is very much a shoestring effort. Their Lola-Cosworth T280s, the only two in existence, looked rather travel weary and were in need of some real development testing." Drivers for this race were Craft/Larousse (HU-01?) and Wisell/Bonnier (HU-02?). When the Craft car retired early on, Larousse switched to the Wisell/Bonnier car until that retired at about half distance (don't think JoBo drove but not 100% sure).

For Monza 1,000 kms, Hughes de Fierlandt replaced Craft as Larousse's partner, because he brought some money along... Both cars qualified well but went out of the race early on again.

For Round 6 (Spa 1,000kms) it appears that HU-01 may have actually been sold, as it reports Larrousse as driving "Lola number two after driving the original car all the rest of the season" and he shared with de Fierlandt. Wisell/Bonnier might have been originally entered but they don't appear to have turned up.

Don't think any T280s started Round 7, the Targa Florio. Ditto Round 8, Nurburgring 1,000kms, although Bonnier/Larousse were present driving an FVC-powered T290. I believe that by this stage the two cars were being prepared for Le Mans, with a reported 48,000 man hours being put into the task.

For Le Mans, two cars were fielded for Bonnier/Larrousse/van Lennep (Wisell was injured apparently)and de Fierlandt/Jorge de Bagration/Mario Cabral. Maybe the identities of two of the co-drivers is an indication that this second car had been sold before Le Mans to a Spanish or Portugese owner (sorry don't know the nationalities of these two!)? The Bonnier car (HU-02?) was destroyed in JoBo's fatal accident, while the de Fierland/de Bagration/Cabral car (which had also been driven by Larousse, in fact don't even know if de B and Cab got a drive) retired around midnight.

The following weekend (June 18th), Carlos Caspar is reported as winning the sports car race at Estoril in his "Lola-DFV T280". So, either this is HU-01 (or HU-02 depending on which car Bonnier was driving when he crashed!), ex-Le Mans or a new car. It seems this might have been a new car (HU-03?) because for the next round of the World Sportscar Championship at Osterreichring (June 25th), Vic Elford appears, partnered by Larrousse, "driving the Ecurie Bonnier second Lola T280 which had also appeared at Le Mans". By definition this can only be the car driven by de Fierlandt et al and it really depends how you interpret the use of the words "Ecurie Bonnier second Lola T280", e.g. if it was the number two car in the squad (which is what I think they mean) or the second T280 built (e.g HU-02)!!! They actually out-qualified all the Ferrari 312Ps for this race, only being beaten to pole by the Mirage. Not bad!

For Round 11, at Watkins Glen (July 22nd), Larrousse was paird with Wisell and Autosport reports that "The Lola was No. 1, and appeared in usual configuration..." Since its race number was 90, one can only assume that this is a reference to the car being chassis HU-01, again supporting the conclusion that it was HU-02 that was destroyed in the Bonnier accident.

For a sports car race at Estoril, November 11th 1972, Carlos Caspar is reported as a 'no-show' in his "3-litre Lola T280", apparently after sponsorship difficulties.

So this leaves us with three reported T280s that have appeared in public during the 1972 racing season.

In its season review of Group 5 sportscar racing, Autosport adds a few more tidbits:

"They were to have been run with sponsorship from Karl von Wendt's racing team, but when von Wendt withdrew after everything had been ordered, the cars were run at Bonnier's expense. They were even supported by his preparation business or BonGrip spike concern. With such an expensive project - around £100,000 invested - Bonnier was forced to take 'paying' drivers...

"The car's debut at Buenos Aires saw it leading at one stage and set fastest lap - a fat that, one would have expected, would make many private entrants think of running a car. This was what Ecurie Bonnier had hoped (Bonnier was the European agent for Lola cars) but surprisingly only one other car was sold throughout the year and this was never raced in Europe."

An interesting comment, particularly in the light of the fact that we know that Caspar raced his at Estoril in June! Maybe the writer didn't regard Portugal as being part of Europe!!!

As Jeremy pointed out, the Paris 1,000kms car was the prototype T282. NB although a T280 is listed in the grid for Smith/Ligonnet, this is actually a misprint and is the 2-litre T290 they had raced that year.

You probably already know a lot of this detail but I hope some bits of it are useful!

Cheers

Michael
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Old 5 Sep 2003, 13:12 (Ref:709119)   #20
josvandeperre
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Does anyone remember an article in the Evening Standard years ago about a bloke in kent who had a road legal DFV powered T280 (I think - tho it may have been a later model)
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Old 5 Sep 2003, 14:39 (Ref:709211)   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by josvandeperre
Does anyone remember an article in the Evening Standard years ago about a bloke in kent who had a road legal DFV powered T280 (I think - tho it may have been a later model)
Sounds like the sort of thing Nick Whiting would have done, being into Special Saloons and all that sort of thing!

Michael
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Old 5 Sep 2003, 15:09 (Ref:709250)   #22
Jeremy Jackson
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Michael,

Thanks for the detailed summary. Didn't get around tying all the Autosport comments together, and I completely missed the Gaspar reference at Estoril in June. Bonnier definitely didn't send cars to the Targa or Nürburgring. I tend to go for HU03 for Gaspar's car (this would then become Rouveyran's, contrary to what I supposed earlier on!), but it's only an opinion.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, a T280 appeared in MNGT events here driven by Jeremy Lord in 73-74, but I don't know if that was a previously unused chassis or not.

Jeremy
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Old 5 Sep 2003, 17:02 (Ref:709334)   #23
Michael Oliver
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Jackson
Michael,

Thanks for the detailed summary. Didn't get around tying all the Autosport comments together, and I completely missed the Gaspar reference at Estoril in June. Bonnier definitely didn't send cars to the Targa or Nürburgring. I tend to go for HU03 for Gaspar's car (this would then become Rouveyran's, contrary to what I supposed earlier on!), but it's only an opinion.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, a T280 appeared in MNGT events here driven by Jeremy Lord in 73-74, but I don't know if that was a previously unused chassis or not.

Jeremy
Jeremy

I've just been digging around a bit more and it seems the Bonnier cars contested a few other races, such as two Interserie rounds (but DNS at both of them 3/4/72 Ring and 1/5/72 Imola, plus de Fierlandt/Bonnier won the 4 hours of Le Mans on the Le Mans test day weekend (19/4/72).

Also Gaspar raced his T280 at Vila Real 9/7/72 and finished 3rd, then Casoni finished 5th in a T280 in the 500km of Imola 17/9/72. Maybe Gaspar sold his car to Casoni due to the reported sponsorship problems I mentioned earlier?

Takahara drove three races in a T280 in Japan, all at Mt Fuji Raceway. These were 3/9/72 (1st), 10/10/72 (1st) and 23/11/72 (1st). As the last World Championship round took place in the US on 22/7/72, it is reasonable to put forward the suggestion that Takahara bought/borrowed the surviving Ecurie Bonnier car, HU-01, but I don't have any firm evidence to back this up. In any case, I think they are unlikely to be the same car, because the dates overlap.

I'm currently looking into 1973, where Rouvreyan appears several times as well as a Jolly Club entry. Presumably the Rouvreyan car could be the ex-Gaspar/Casoni car, while the Jolly Club car was (I know someone mentioned this) an ex-Bonnier car - perhaps the one used by Takahara at the end of 1972? Lots of perhaps and maybes!

Cheers

Michael
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Old 5 Sep 2003, 18:02 (Ref:709388)   #24
Jeremy Jackson
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Michael,

I knew about the Interserie races, and the LM race, but not about Takahara.

Autosport's 1973 Dijon report says that Rouveyran's was the ex-BIP chassis, which was Gaspar's. Just found Autosport's 1972 Vila Real report that says "Gaspar's new T280, the only one apart from the one surviving Bonnier car. Gaspar took delivery in early June... etc"
Seems a shame that there are some T290 chassis numbers quoted in this report, and not this one...

Casoni's car at Imola was hired by Brescia Corse from Bonnier.

Cheers

Jeremy
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Old 7 Sep 2003, 11:09 (Ref:710715)   #25
Alain HACHE
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Hello
thanks at all for details , my opinion about Carlos Gaspar
T280 is probably chassis HU03 because Bonnier team could not in the week after Le Mans restaure HU01 and send it to Estoril to race at 18 of June . ( not enought time , team
shoked by Bonnier death ) .
Other important thing : on Gaspar car the "arceau de sécurité " was like HU01 and 2 before Monza (driver head protection only ) and HU01 had an larger at Le Mans and Zeltweg.I think this part of the chassis was not fast interchangeable . I have a picture of the car but I don't know how join it in message
all the best at all
Alain
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Old 9 Sep 2003, 12:28 (Ref:713043)   #26
Michael Oliver
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Jackson
Michael,

I knew about the Interserie races, and the LM race, but not about Takahara.

Autosport's 1973 Dijon report says that Rouveyran's was the ex-BIP chassis, which was Gaspar's. Just found Autosport's 1972 Vila Real report that says "Gaspar's new T280, the only one apart from the one surviving Bonnier car. Gaspar took delivery in early June... etc"
Seems a shame that there are some T290 chassis numbers quoted in this report, and not this one...

Casoni's car at Imola was hired by Brescia Corse from Bonnier.

Cheers

Jeremy
OK, seems a good bet that Gaspar's car was HU-03. But what about Takahara's car? Maybe Gaspar rented it out to him before selling it on to Rouvreyan over the winter? Because if Casoni rented a car for the Sept Imola race from Bonnier it could only have been HU-01, as the Imola and Japan races overlap in data terms. HU-02 was already written off so either Takahara drove HU-03 or another car HU-04 and I've not seen anything that suggests more than 3 T280s were built. What do you reckon?

Cheers

Michael
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Old 9 Sep 2003, 12:31 (Ref:713051)   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Alain HACHE
Hello
thanks at all for details , my opinion about Carlos Gaspar
T280 is probably chassis HU03 because Bonnier team could not in the week after Le Mans restaure HU01 and send it to Estoril to race at 18 of June . ( not enought time , team
shoked by Bonnier death ) .
Other important thing : on Gaspar car the "arceau de sécurité " was like HU01 and 2 before Monza (driver head protection only ) and HU01 had an larger at Le Mans and Zeltweg.I think this part of the chassis was not fast interchangeable . I have a picture of the car but I don't know how join it in message
all the best at all
Alain
Hi Alain

By 'arceau de securite' do you mean the roll-over hoop/bar? I am at home today and all my Autosports are in my office, so I'll have to wait until tomorrow to see what you mean. But I agree it is unlikely that Gaspar's car could have been any other chassis as we know that the Bonnier team raced HU-01 several more times that year.

Regards

Michael
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Old 9 Sep 2003, 13:03 (Ref:713109)   #28
Jeremy Jackson
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Michael,

Agree with gaspar for HU03. I know Martin Krejci's data has T280-Ford for Takahara in a few Grand Champion races, I don't suppose there's confirmation anywhere else, like Autosport? I have a lot from 68-76, but I don't have a complete set.

The reason being: I have some Italian results in the mid-70s for a T280 - Ford, but it was actually a 2-litre, whcih is more than likely a T290. I suppose the point is, was it a T280?

If there were only 3, which would be the Jeremy Lord chassis, and for that matter, the car that Mallock/Wild used in 1983 Thundersports?
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Old 9 Sep 2003, 21:43 (Ref:713579)   #29
Michael Oliver
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Jackson
Michael,

Agree with gaspar for HU03. I know Martin Krejci's data has T280-Ford for Takahara in a few Grand Champion races, I don't suppose there's confirmation anywhere else, like Autosport? I have a lot from 68-76, but I don't have a complete set.

The reason being: I have some Italian results in the mid-70s for a T280 - Ford, but it was actually a 2-litre, whcih is more than likely a T290. I suppose the point is, was it a T280?

If there were only 3, which would be the Jeremy Lord chassis, and for that matter, the car that Mallock/Wild used in 1983 Thundersports?
Well, if HU-03 went to Rouvreyan and he was killed in mid-73, it is possible that it was sold, maybe to Lord? And this was also the Mallock/Wilds car? OTOH, it could be HU-01 I guess, so we need some harder evidence really, which would involve talking to the people concerned.

Re Takahara, I'll look in AS, as I have a full set for that period.

Michael
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Old 10 Sep 2003, 09:52 (Ref:713932)   #30
Alain HACHE
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Michael
yes I think we can translate "arceau de sécurité" to roll over hoop/ bar ,sorry for my bad english.
On differents pictures I am owner 4 types of roll over hoop
bar exist : first for HU01 and 2 in the beginning of 1972
second version at Monza 1000 Kms with a welded bar on the left of the car ( also Le Mans version ) . A third is the
symmetrical on the car winner of Paris 1000 Kms and the last for T282 284 and 286 cars .
The Gaspar car at Estoril is with the first type so we can
say that its an another chassis than HU01 and 2, we suppose HU03 .
If HU 003 was Rouveyran car in 1973 , I think Casoni car
was not HU001 because on picture of the car after Nurburgring the roll over hoop / bar seem to be like car
winner of Paris 1000 Kms .
2 years ago C FOX solded an T280 and telled to me that was
chassis HU005 .... I will try to contact it again to confirm me that and to know car's story . In case of that
who was HU004 owner ? TAKAHARA ?
* bientôt
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