The Hockenheim-ring...

[gomick]

Just watched a highlights package of a wsbk race from 2000 that used the full circuit. The bikes where slipstreaming all the way through the forest which got me thinking - what is the situation with that part of the ciruit in 2011?

With all these new huge boring circuits being built & tv $$$ being more important than crowds through the gates, how awesome would it be to see F1 roar through the ost-curve again

[bella]

they took up the track immediately, and planted trees. it's still possible to walk the path of the old circuit but all but the final straight into the stadium (car park) has gone. the whole area is popular with weekend cyclists.

[Andy77]

Originally Posted by gomick

Just watched a highlights package of a wsbk race from 2000 that used the full circuit. The bikes where slipstreaming all the way through the forest which got me thinking - what is the situation with that part of the ciruit in 2011?

With all these new huge boring circuits being built & tv $$$ being more important than crowds through the gates, how awesome would it be to see F1 roar through the ost-curve again

Nothing of the forest straights and the Ostkurve exists anymore eversince the all new Eunuchenheim has been built, thanks to a certain Bernhard E. wanted the cars lapping more often and parties in power that usually only have votes at next election in mind. The only thing still existing of old Hockenheim are the traces through the wood on overhead/satelite pictures in google earth. Even the Jim Clark monument had to be moved backwards so it doesn't stand somewhere hidden in the woods

[Sodemo]

A great travesty.

However you can add the Osterreichring to that list. A once fearsome, high speed track that is now no more.

EDIT: And Imola for that matter.

[Peat]

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/4016807

[ECW Dan Selby]

I just find it all really sad. Not just the Hockenheimring, the lot of them.

I still don't understand why they can't just leave the original sections and build around them. I'm sure there'll be 100 "good" reasons from the governments etc, but I think the idea of still running different series there and keeping a nice balance (ie. maybe running the Formula One there bi-yearly, or every 3/4 years) in F1 would be healthy for the sport.

Imagine still having the options of the old Silverstone layout, but combining bits with the new sections. Imagine re-profiling the Villenueve corner at Imola so that it could still echo its old self (and STILL have the chicane option) but rennovated to adhere to the safety guidelines.

Hey, one can dream.

If I could edit current tracks on Bob's Track Builder, this is exactly what i'd be trying to do

Selby

[chunterer]

Funnily enough I watched a replay of that decent BBC4 doc on Grand Prix last night (think it was shown first last week?) and there was a section devoted to the old circuit and Jim Clark. Crikey it was dangerous back then!!

The last time it was used was 2001 IIRC? A race Montoya totally dominated until his engine let go.

[ECW Dan Selby]

It makes me wonder why Tilke doesn't try and recreate something not too disimilar.

He seems to love the idea of straight/tight turn, so why not make a flat out quick track with some tight turns? At least it'd be different to some of the other cookie cutter tracks...

Selby

[Super Hans]

For me, forests and parkland remain the most attractive and evocative locations for race tracks. Old airfields come second, city streets third and vast featureless white elephants in the middle of nowhere, last.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

For me, forests and parkland remain the most attractive and evocative locations for race tracks. Old airfields come second, city streets third and vast featureless white elephants in the middle of nowhere, last.

Absolutely, love it when there's a mix of old airfield with fields or parks all in one, like a lot of the British tracks.

[ECW Dan Selby]

Even if he designed something like this:



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Pick up the concept of Hockenheim and give it a shot - see if it provides a good race! I'm 95% sure it would. Hockenheim did afterall.

Selby

[Andy77]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Absolutely, love it when there's a mix of old airfield with fields or parks all in one, like a lot of the British tracks.

That's the reason I love to watch BSB and BTCC. For the fantastic circuits they ride and drive on !

I haven't been to Hockenheim since its rebuilt. And I do not plan to go there again. An attraction beside the racing in itself is always the circuit to me too and the new Eunuchenheim doesn't attract me the slightest bit.

[bella]

i never got to go to hockenheim prior to rebuilding but i like to try and get to the memorials and have a walk. i don't find it particularly moving or atmospheric in the same way the old areas of circuit are at monza, but that's perhaps because monza is more suited to leaving those intact because they're inside the existing layout.

it's a shame they felt the previous circuit couldn't continue but it's time to move on. personally i'm just as offended by the abomination that is the new parts of zolder compared to the old ones. the old bit isn't really good for modern huge racing cars and driving styles but the new one is just a characterless crime.

[stripedcat]

Great circuit ECW Dan Selby. Certainly better than the current Hockenheim. One of the things I liked about the old Hockenheim, was that because it had such a long lap it meant that even in the era of re-fuelling the onus was on the driver to fight it out on the track, something which was actually possible because of the long straights, slipstreaming was possible! Plus it was good to have a high speed circuit. I admit that it might not offer have offered such a technical challenge to the driver, because a lot of it was just driving in a straight line, but it did manage to produce some good races(1986, 1987 Piquet winning both, 1991 with Senna and Prost having a good scrap, 1992 and Mansell taking to the escape road to avoid going into the back of Senna and later on Patrese taking to the grass, plus Rubens being amazing in the rain and on dry tyres in 2000).

It is good to have a variety of tracks in F1. Hockenheim as a high speed, low downforce one was good. Likewise having a street circuit like Monaco is worthwhile, even though I accept that overtaking on there is impossible or very difficult at best. Sadly Tilke and Bernie want cookie cutter tracks everywhere with no character what so ever.

Isn't the A1 ring going to go back to a more Österreichring based layout. I know it is been redeveloped.

Just thinking now, what with the crumbly Pirelli tyres and no re-fuelling what a great race there could be on the old Hockenheim circuit.

I don't really like the new Hockenheim that much. I suppose the only real racing that goes on is at the hairpin at turn 4. Am I right in thinking that there is a TV camera on a wire along the straight there? I think I remember seeing it in action on the first race there in 2002. It seemed quite novel at the time, what with it being able to track cars with a great side shot.

[Andy77]

Originally Posted by stripedcat

.....
Isn't the A1 ring going to go back to a more Österreichring based layout. I know it is been redeveloped.
....

Not old Österreichring-layout but the younger A1-Ring layout gets used again unfortunately. Not sure if there are changes to it but I'd think that it only can be minor ones

[Alan Raine]

I went there several times in the 80's but couldn't afford the Grandstands in 1985, so went round the back. The noise though the trees was amazing.

Quite good for a few photos as well.

[dyewat808]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

For me, forests and parkland remain the most attractive and evocative locations for race tracks. Old airfields come second, city streets third and vast featureless white elephants in the middle of nowhere, last.

Spot on. Totally agree

The location is just as important as the track itself imo. And that's one of the reasons I watch the BTCC too Andy77!

Great photos by the way Alan!

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Funnily enough I watched a replay of that decent BBC4 doc on Grand Prix last night (think it was shown first last week?) and there was a section devoted to the old circuit and Jim Clark. Crikey it was dangerous back then!!

The last time it was used was 2001 IIRC? A race Montoya totally dominated until his engine let go.

I watched that, no Armco, nothing except the trees.

[bludd billz]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

For me, forests and parkland remain the most attractive and evocative locations for race tracks. Old airfields come second, city streets third and vast featureless white elephants in the middle of nowhere, last.

+1000 my friend!

I was thinking the same thing while enjoying Albert Park's scenery. This reminds me of the Petit Le Mans. Ex F1 drivers come over and most of them love Road Atlanta.

[Wims]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

For me, forests and parkland remain the most attractive and evocative locations for race tracks. Old airfields come second, city streets third and vast featureless white elephants in the middle of nowhere, last.

Airfields? Really? Thats about as interesting as having a race on a parking lot in my opinion. No features, just flat artificial running. Not flowing and undulating like say Cadwell park. Cadwell is awesome, Silverstone is terrible. I actually prefer modern arena style tracks like Bahrain over an airfield track

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Wims

Airfields? Really? Thats about as interesting as having a race on a parking lot in my opinion. No features, just flat artificial running. Not flowing and undulating like say Cadwell park. Cadwell is awesome, Silverstone is terrible. I actually prefer modern arena style tracks like Bahrain over an airfield track

Silverstone's hardly artificial, that's how they found it. You got to put a track like Silverstone in its context. There weren't that many facilities in post war Britain and they improvised and came up with an excellent sollution. As for gently undulating, if all tracks were like Cadwell Park it would be rather boring.

Putting a track like Bahrain in context, it is purely artificial.

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by Wims

Airfields? Really? Thats about as interesting as having a race on a parking lot in my opinion. No features, just flat artificial running. Not flowing and undulating like say Cadwell park.

I put parkland and forest circuits first, so I can only agree that Cadwell is superb. But I do quite like Croft, Thruxton, Snetterton, Silverstone...etc, which is why airfield circuits are my second favourite.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

I put parkland and forest circuits first, so I can only agree that Cadwell is superb. But I do quite like Croft, Thruxton, Snetterton, Silverstone...etc, which is why airfield circuits are my second favourite.

Not forgetting one of the finest parkland circuits that's ever been, anywhere; Oulton Park!

Always thought Elkhart Lake was like a bigger version of the Cheshire venue?

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Not forgetting one of the finest parkland circuits that's ever been, anywhere; Oulton Park!

I grew up going to Oulton Park. It's my favourite place in the whole world. I don't live in the North West anymore, but try to get to Oulton at least once a year.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

I grew up going to Oulton Park. It's my favourite place in the whole world. I don't live in the North West anymore, but try to get to Oulton at least once a year.

Brillliant, I haven't been to Oulton for years, always used to go 2 or 3 times a year becuase it was so distinctive.

I always wished I had been close to a circuit. Nearest I think was Thruxton in the days when I lives in Berkshire.