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29 Nov 2013, 08:03 (Ref:3338043) | #51 | ||
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Vettel's been further down the order before and has systematically gnawed away at every minute problem on the car to progressively get him to the front. It's completely conceivable that RBR are wrong footed by the regulation changes next year - in fact I hope they are - but who would you place your money on to get on top of their problems faster - Alonso/Ferrari or Vettel/RBR ? |
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29 Nov 2013, 08:39 (Ref:3338056) | #52 | |||
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I hope you are not trying to insinuate the Red Bull is not presently the best car and all this achievement has been pulled to the front off the back of Vettel? If that is the case I think this conversation goes no further. Drivers need a decent package and the package needs a decent driver. Vettel has that right now. Put him in the Ferrari or Mercedes of the past few years and I don't believe a driver can out perform the potential of a car. It is impossible based on pure mathematics. I'm not here to doubt that Vettel is not a great talent, but I will be realistic about my analysis. Quote:
Give it a few more years and I think Vettel will be held in the same regard as Alonso. Last edited by henners88; 29 Nov 2013 at 08:46. |
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29 Nov 2013, 08:45 (Ref:3338060) | #53 | |
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The funny thing about these types of arguments is how easily it goes both ways.
Right now Vettel fans are dealing with so many comments about it being all about the car. They argue it is not and that Vettel is pushing beyond his limits to succeed. Webber hasn't done the same so it must be Vettel. The irony is if we see an inferior Red Bull next season, those same people will be saying he is not winning because he doesn't have the car to do it. It could so easily flip the other way. I don't want to single out Vettel fans with that statement because I think it applies to all fans regardless of which driver they support. A great driver needs a competitive package. It is as simple as that. A competitive package doesn't necessarily mean the driver is not good enough and people need to acknowledge that. |
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29 Nov 2013, 09:05 (Ref:3338065) | #54 | ||
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This thread is about Vettel vs Alonso....as drivers.
Forget about the cars they drive, that's a variable we can't control. Ask yourself this; If the FIA said EVERY driver had to drive EVERY car on the grid, twice, across the 2014 season (or any season!), who would you pick to be World Champion? For me it's Alonso........everytime. |
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29 Nov 2013, 10:02 (Ref:3338084) | #55 | |||
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On occasion Massa was able to extract more from the car than Alonso, so it's perfectly conceivable that Vettel could extract just as much as Massa... if not more ? Furthermore, Vettel's a consummate car developer... and it's even more conceivable that he could turn that Ferrari into something better than Alonso could. However, all these are 'what ifs'. All we know is that Vettel has beaten Alonso 4 years in a row. |
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29 Nov 2013, 10:06 (Ref:3338085) | #56 | ||
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29 Nov 2013, 10:08 (Ref:3338086) | #57 | ||
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29 Nov 2013, 10:18 (Ref:3338089) | #58 | |||
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.....Who would you pick? A simple question you've failed to answer. |
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29 Nov 2013, 10:32 (Ref:3338098) | #59 | |
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29 Nov 2013, 10:34 (Ref:3338099) | #60 | |
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It's hard not to wonder about the bad luck Alonso had since winning his second title in 2006. Three championships slip from underneath his nose in 2007, 2010, and 2012 at the last race of season. People who know this will always rate him very highly.
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29 Nov 2013, 10:34 (Ref:3338100) | #61 | |
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29 Nov 2013, 13:33 (Ref:3338124) | #62 | ||
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yes, it's all getting very tiresome, all this "my driver is better than your driver".. and I'm guilty of this too before you say anything. I have my views, you won't change them.. you have your view I won't change them, and can't be bothered to anyway. We've all deviated from the intent of the thread I think, or maybe not ? For me, the thread is over. |
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29 Nov 2013, 14:07 (Ref:3338130) | #63 | |
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Going back to the thread topic for a moment. Here's what one retired driver has to say about Vettel...
He doesn't have any corporate strings to pull him one or another... but I guess he's a friend of Vettel's so maybe that's coloured his opinion. |
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29 Nov 2013, 17:19 (Ref:3338213) | #64 | ||||
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30 Nov 2013, 02:41 (Ref:3338427) | #65 | ||
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... Yes, Schumacher's very unbiased opinion on how good Vettel is. Very good example there davyboy. Couldn't have picked a better person. Michael Schumacher is probably the next best person to Norbert Vettel to ask for a opinion on how good Sebastian is.
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30 Nov 2013, 08:28 (Ref:3338488) | #66 | |
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You forgot Helmut Marko.
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30 Nov 2013, 11:25 (Ref:3338538) | #67 | ||
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There wasn't much of an opinion in what Schumacher said, he just said he was "shocked" by the difference in points between Vettel and Webber.
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30 Nov 2013, 13:14 (Ref:3338586) | #68 | |
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Not much between either of them. Although, Vettel does have age on his side and can probably only get better. A very sobering thought.
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2 Dec 2013, 08:52 (Ref:3339159) | #69 | |
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That wasn't the case in the conversation you link to though. That post was in response to me and the debate over Vettel and Alonso. I'm a fan of neither driver but had my opinions on who I thought was better at this point in time. I'd like to think my opinion was more based on what I think of the two drivers abilities, rather than allegiance to a driver I support.
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29 Dec 2013, 11:58 (Ref:3348542) | #70 | ||
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Alonso has his say on if Vettel can be considered an F1 legend:
Fernando Alonso: "Time will tell us, but I think when he will have a car like the others, if he wins he will have great recognition and he will be one of the legends of F1. "When one day he has the car like the others and he is fourth, fifth or seventh then these four titles will be bad news for him because people will take those four days in a even worse manner than what they are doing now." "So there are interesting times for Sebastian coming." http://www.f1times.co.uk/news/display/08350 |
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29 Dec 2013, 19:34 (Ref:3348655) | #71 | ||
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Silly question to ask in the first place and a surprising amount of envy on Alonso's side.
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29 Dec 2013, 19:51 (Ref:3348660) | #72 | ||
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Not really. He was just voicing what a number of people think. Nothing unusual there at all.
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96 days... |
30 Dec 2013, 16:08 (Ref:3348934) | #73 | ||
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Right. So when Alonso finishes in 4th, 5th or 7th in his 'car like the others' people take these 2 days in a bad manner because his 2 titles are bad news for him? What does that even mean?
I have another interesting Alonso quote here, just don't know if google translate has left it intact: If warrior manner like old man by the river by the honour Kalvi (beef delicacy), nevertheless, like always only noodle soup manner. |
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30 Dec 2013, 16:11 (Ref:3348936) | #74 | ||
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Sounds like he is speaking from experience....one day you are the heir apparent and a future legend and after a few years of mediocre cars you are yesterday's news with your past success becoming a liability.
the media are a fickle fickle bunch and nothing sells like stories about faded glory. Given the chance they will tear him down. |
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30 Dec 2013, 16:32 (Ref:3348941) | #75 | |
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