Nissan LMP1 Discussion

[pederb]

Paint it flat black and we have the Bat Mobile

[carabus]

Quite an interesting mention from Czech server, by Richard Divila (with the Czech origin), a racing car engineer (exCopersucar Fittipaldi, now Nismo):
http://www.ceskeokruhy.cz/pro-nissan...-ma-minimalni/

„V porovnánÃ* s továrnÃ*mi týmy Audi, Toyota a Porsche má Nissan velmi nÃ*zký rozpočet,“ řekl pro České Okruhy Richard Divila, který se podÃ*lÃ* na realizaci japonského prototypu.

Richard Divila pracuje u Nissanu od roku 1995 a s vytrvalostnÃ*mi závody má bohaté zkušenosti. V současnosti soustředÃ* svou pozornost na nový prototyp LMP1, jenž si automobilka pečlivě střežÃ* a určitou formu prezentace chystá až na finálový zápas americké fotbalové ligy, který se uskutečnÃ* 1. února.
Divila pro České Okruhy uvedl, že stavba prototypu LMP1 je pro Nissan ohromnou výzvou. „ZačÃ*nali jsme s čistým listem. Technická pravidla využÃ*váme až na samou hranici. Pro Nissan je LMP1 vÃ*ce technickou než sportovnÃ* výzvou. VÃ*me, že Audi na jejich domácÃ*m poli (ve vytrvalostnÃ*ch závodech) nemůžeme konkurovat. NavÃ*c majÃ* bezedné finančnÃ* prostředky. Nissan má v porovnánÃ* s Audi, Toyotou a Porsche velmi nÃ*zký rozpočet,“ řekl Richard Divila, který se v motorsportu pohybuje od šedesátých let.

Quick translation into English:

„In comparison with Audi, Toyota and Porsche, the budget of Nissan is very limited,“ said Richard Divila, cooperating on the Nissan LMP1 project, for the Czech Circuits server.
Working at Nissan since 1995, Richard Divila has a lot of experience with endurance racing cars. At present, he concentrates his attention onthe new LMP1 project, which is kept as top secret, perhaps with a certain way of presentation within the final match of American Football Bowl, February 1, 2015.
As Divila stated for Czech Circuits server, the construction of the LMP1 prototype is a great challenge for Nissan. „We had started with a blank sheet. We try to use the technical regulations to their uttermost limits, but the project is rather technical than sportive challenge for Nissan. We know we cannot compete with Audi in their homefield of endurance racing. Moreover, their budget is almost unlimited. In comparison with Audi, Porsche and Toyota, the budget of Nissan is very limited,“ said Richard Divila, being engaged in motosport since the sixties.

[dbagtbag]

Originally Posted by carabus

Quite an interesting mention from Czech server, by Richard Divila (with the Czech origin), a racing car engineer (exCopersucar Fittipaldi, now Nismo):
http://www.ceskeokruhy.cz/pro-nissan...-ma-minimalni/

„V porovnánÃ* s továrnÃ*mi týmy Audi, Toyota a Porsche má Nissan velmi nÃ*zký rozpočet,“ řekl pro České Okruhy Richard Divila, který se podÃ*lÃ* na realizaci japonského prototypu.

Richard Divila pracuje u Nissanu od roku 1995 a s vytrvalostnÃ*mi závody má bohaté zkuÅ¡enosti. V současnosti soustředÃ* svou pozornost na nový prototyp LMP1, jenž si automobilka pečlivě střežÃ* a určitou formu prezentace chystá až na finálový zápas americké fotbalové ligy, který se uskutečnÃ* 1. února.
Divila pro České Okruhy uvedl, že stavba prototypu LMP1 je pro Nissan ohromnou výzvou. „ZačÃ*nali jsme s čistým listem. Technická pravidla využÃ*váme až na samou hranici. Pro Nissan je LMP1 vÃ*ce technickou než sportovnÃ* výzvou. VÃ*me, že Audi na jejich domácÃ*m poli (ve vytrvalostnÃ*ch závodech) nemůžeme konkurovat. NavÃ*c majÃ* bezedné finančnÃ* prostředky. Nissan má v porovnánÃ* s Audi, Toyotou a Porsche velmi nÃ*zký rozpočet,“ řekl Richard Divila, který se v motorsportu pohybuje od Å¡edesátých let.

Quick translation into English:

„In comparison with Audi, Toyota and Porsche, the budget of Nissan is very limited,“ said Richard Divila, cooperating on the Nissan LMP1 project, for the Czech Circuits server.
Working at Nissan since 1995, Richard Divila has a lot of experience with endurance racing cars. At present, he concentrates his attention onthe new LMP1 project, which is kept as top secret, perhaps with a certain way of presentation within the final match of American Football Bowl, February 1, 2015.
As Divila stated for Czech Circuits server, the construction of the LMP1 prototype is a great challenge for Nissan. „We had started with a blank sheet. We try to use the technical regulations to their uttermost limits, but the project is rather technical than sportive challenge for Nissan. We know we cannot compete with Audi in their homefield of endurance racing. Moreover, their budget is almost unlimited. In comparison with Audi, Porsche and Toyota, the budget of Nissan is very limited,“ said Richard Divila, being engaged in motosport since the sixties.

Hmm... Is http://www.ceskeokruhy.cz/ quite a reputable source?

I was under the impression Nissan was going to be spending at least more than Toyota given their 3 anticipated cars at Le Mans.

Either way it seems like quite a pessimistic viewpoint on a car that hasn't even been announced yet.

[carabus]

Originally Posted by dbagtbag

Hmm... Is http://www.ceskeokruhy.cz/ quite a reputable source?

I was under the impression Nissan was going to be spending at least more than Toyota given their 3 anticipated cars at Le Mans.

Either way it seems like quite a pessimistic viewpoint on a car that hasn't even been announced yet.

Yes, I understand your point of view - 3 cars at LM really seem to be more sportive than technological target, incl. the budget. Anyway http://www.ceskeokruhy.cz/ has always been a VERY reputable source, so there are no doutbts on the authenticity of the interview with Richard Divila...

[Spyderman]

Could he just be trying to "manage expectations" ?

[carabus]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Could he just be trying to "manage expectations" ?

Yes, I think it is one of the possible explanations :-)

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Could he just be trying to "manage expectations" ?

Probably - if the 3 Le Mans and (+2 WEC entries?) come through as expected I find it hard to believe they have a budget significantly less than even the VAG bros, nevermind Toyota. Divila does have plenty of experience with sportscars and the funding thereof, but to lump in TMG with Audi & Porsche implies that their budget is an order of magnitude less. I don't see it.

Perhaps if Nissan's PR output wasn't so superlative there wouldn't be a need to manage expectations like this? Although I hope they do well, even I didn't expect them to be on the pace straight away.

[TF110]

I dont believe it. Unless Nissan NA is paying for the Superbowl commercial, they have to have significant funds to be able to afford something like that. I said this before, but NBC wants $4.5 million for a 30 second spot of commercial time. Thats probably a relative double digit % of someone like Rebellion's total budget.

[Bandicoot17]

Pretty sure I remember them saying back at the launch that they'd have a toyota esque budget.

Lets keep it real, they aren't funding the superbowl ad with the P1 budget.

[miatanut]

The budgets of the others are influenced by looking for very small margins of time from car designs that are very similar.

IF, through the talents of Ben Bowlby and others who worked on the DW and ZEOD cars they are working from a concept that is very different, and able to use a much smaller rear wing or no rear wing (saving drag), and able to save some more drag by having smaller rear fenders, then they could enter the starting gate with a significant advantage and not have to spend as much money looking for an advantage. It would be a car that would be very good at Le Mans and decent at Spa. Maybe not as competitive at the other tracks, but if the focus is on winning Le Mans, maybe that's OK.

[TME45]

Originally Posted by miatanut

The budgets of the others are influenced by looking for very small margins of time from car designs that are very similar.

IF, through the talents of Ben Bowlby and others who worked on the DW and ZEOD cars they are working from a concept that is very different, and able to use a much smaller rear wing or no rear wing (saving drag), and able to save some more drag by having smaller rear fenders, then they could enter the starting gate with a significant advantage and not have to spend as much money looking for an advantage. It would be a car that would be very good at Le Mans and decent at Spa. Maybe not as competitive at the other tracks, but if the focus is on winning Le Mans, maybe that's OK.

yes, there are 2 different meaning for low budget: they don't WANT to pay for it, or they don't NEED to pay for it, it is a different story. Deltawing show that they can run a car competitive with a low budget. it is a chance that the FWD layout can make the same speed with other car with low budget.

[joeb]

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/newsjan15.html

This car may be very intriguing indeed.

[miatanut]

Originally Posted by joeb

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/newsjan15.html

This car may be very intriguing indeed.

I'm drooling!

[Articus]

Two-THOUSAND HP? 2-0-0-0 hp?? That is mental indeed.

Even taking into account differing hybrid energy release strategies, that is astonishing if they ever run the car even for 5 seconds in that kind of mode.

[MagVanisher]

I'm surprised on the 2000 HP figure, but I'm sure that the FIA/ACO will just nerf it down!

BTW, is there a maximum horsepower limit on LMP1?

[TME45]

Originally Posted by MagVanisher

I'm surprised on the 2000 HP figure, but I'm sure that the FIA/ACO will just nerf it down!

BTW, is there a maximum horsepower limit on LMP1?

the biggest question is how to do it under the fuel flow limit?

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by joeb

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/newsjan15.html

This car may be very intriguing indeed.

Crazy

[cokata]

Originally Posted by joeb

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/newsjan15.html

This car may be very intriguing indeed.

Yes, the rear wing is the most efficient aero device on the car, something on the order of better than 10:1

Isn't the diffuser much more efficient at producing DF? And while having smaller wheels and no rear wing is all good, the front end should be a lot more draggy than the other prototypes.

Also if all of that is true unless Nissan have found out something no one else knows, this thing will be the slowest car in corners other than the GT cars, it would need atleast 2 second advantage in sector 2 over the rest. Anyways it should be fun i just hope it is not a huge let down .

[Mt. Lynx]

A diffuser is only an aid for the rear wing. Usually it doesn't produce any df on its own.

[TF110]

2000hp? Cockpit near the rear wheels? I dont see that being possible.

First, for that amount of power, they would need 1400hp from the electric motors if were going by the 600hp engine quote from Mr. Fuller. If there is two electric motors, thats 700hp each. The total output from their flywheel would be 3 times as powerful as the Supercapacitor. If thats true, why is it that Audi's is a fraction as strong? Size and weight? Seems too good to be true!

The second thing is the cockpit location. If its close to the rear wheels, that creates issues with the car being legal in a few ways. One is the ruling on the area that saw the 2014 cars have elongated cockpit areas. Porsche went a different route than Toyota and Audi did so that may be an option. But with that, the minimum fin area will come into play. If theyre going to meet that, the cockpit cant be too far back or else there wouldnt be enough room for the 3000+ square mm fin area to be covered. It can only extend to a certain area as well, unless its considered a part of the rear wing mount (but theres supposedly no rear wing). Then where are the mirrors going to be located?

[Giba]

If the car does have 2,000 HP or even "just" 1,500 along with the other details mentioned in the mulsanne's corner article, what sort of top speed could it reach?

[dave_l]

Mike says "I'm told that the flywheel KERS on the Nissan is actually in the front of the chassis, with a prop shaft running to the rear to drive the rear wheels."

I was under the impression the KERS had to power the wheels the energy was harvested from?

Or are they harvesting from the rear (which I believe isn't the best option) and storing the energy in the front?

[carbon_titanium]

Originally Posted by cokata

Also if all of that is true unless Nissan have found out something no one else knows, this thing will be the slowest car in corners other than the GT cars, it would need atleast 2 second advantage in sector 2 over the rest.

Agree, it feels like >350km/h on mulsanne straights and a guinea pig in the porsche sector. There are no middle ways to rate a so radical design... victory or epic fail.

[jee]

Even if they fail in Qualifying, they will lose a lot less time behind GT cars in the faster sections, this is an extra joker for races. It does not matter if they could go 2 or 4 seconds faster than a car they cannot pass in a curvy section.

[TME45]

I think 2000hp is a combined power they won't use in race, just like ZEOD RC
there should be some reason they spend a year on a car for only 1 race.
ZEOD have to transmit between EV mode & Gas mode smoothly.
Maybe GTR will use that 8MJ to Gen 1000hp without gas power on some parts of the track RWD better then FWD. & it save the fuel flow to make 1000hp gas power on straight. As WEC fuel flow limit are taking 3 laps average, that means save fuel for some time to make extract power in another time is allowed, Toyota was tried that use too much fuel & slow down the car so much to gain back the fuel flow quota.