Restart procedure after Safety Car period.

[MartinSmith]

Originally Posted by bludvl_x19

All I ask is that you send me a copy of the regs, and video of the briefing that you do it in.

Got Race of Remembrance soon... I think thats the wrong event..... I dont know though...

I really like it though... its a good call

@Mike Bell... @Simon Hadfield ... WATCH OUT! ha ha

[one-two]

Originally Posted by ClaireSmith

Its a good call.... but if its going slowly all the time, a drive through aint really gonna do much penalty wise is it!

I'm not so bothered about that, the point is that if it gets sent to the back of the train it won't hold anyone else up

[Mike Crow]

This has all rather drifted away from the original post

The problem arises when two or more drivers are racing closely at the head of the field. They start lapping cars but still remain in a close group. Great race, everyone is riveted.

Out comes the safety car just as the lead car has lapped someone but the second car hasn't. It picks up the leader correctly and all the field close up as required in a neat line behind it. Pause to catch breath. Hope the SC isn't too long

Safety car lights go out. Sigh of relief. Let's get back to the racing.

Two thirds round the lap the safety car streaks off to leave a large gap back to the leader. As soon as the leader decides he won't overtake the SC he is free to resume his racing speed. So is the, much slower, car about to be lapped. Because he can't overtake, the second place man can't get back to full speed even though the leader can and has.

By the time they reach the line and he finally laps the car, the second place man is ten seconds adrift. Race ruined, great anticlimax,general disgust and disappointment. Happens all the time.

Answer. Make the restart like a rolling start. Everyone, including the leader, has to hold station all the way until the green flag is waved as they slowly approach the start liine.

[Lancsbreaker]

I'd think we all agree that Safety Cars are a necessary evil (and I have done Safety Car duties!) and that they can and do disrupt races.....however the situation Mike Crow describes above is only as likely as the situation where a lead that has been built up over a considerable time is wiped out by the intervention of the SC, allowing say a 10 second gap to be rendered none-existent.......equally unfair, IMHO.



Again that's why I prefer a FCY or Code 60.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

I'd think we all agree that Safety Cars are a necessary evil (and I have done Safety Car duties!) and that they can and do disrupt races.....however the situation Mike Crow describes above is only as likely as the situation where a lead that has been built up over a considerable time is wiped out by the intervention of the SC, allowing say a 10 second gap to be rendered none-existent.......equally unfair, IMHO.
Again that's why I prefer a FCY or Code 60.

So, gaps don’t get closed up during a club race FCY or Code 60? Fine when cars have in-built limiters......

Yes, a hard earned advantage over the car(s) behind can be lost by SC intervention, but there’s no control over that. Also, in a driver change race, if you’ve just done your stop the lap before the SC joins, you can lose out to those pitting during the SC period. OK, they risk getting held at the end of the pit-lane, but even then, can gain time. Again, that is ‘the luck of the draw’- sometimes you win, sometimes you lose!

The situation that started the thread could be controlled, though. In a perfect SC world, cars would all dutifully line up 5m apart, there would be no gaps or second / third / fourth trains, and at the restart the whole field would cross the control line in order.... BUT, most of the time it doesn’t happen!

The possible solutions?

Pound the message into competitors heads at briefings. Threaten them with exclusion, points on their licences, Spanish Inquisition....

Have drivers complete a written test after the briefing.... Less than 100% you’re out.

Black flag any cars not catching the train. And hope the drivers know what a black flag means....

OR- Allow overtaking as soon as green flags replace waved yellows all around the circuit.....

[The Fat Clerk]

OR- Allow overtaking as soon as green flags replace waved yellows all around the circuit..... [/QUOTE]

Now that's what I call sensible

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

.......... In a perfect SC world, cars would all dutifully line up 5m apart ...............

thought you knew the regs Mike
it's 5 car lengths (not metres )

you perhaps were thinking of the M25....

[MartinSmith]

Gentlemen... I have tagged some of you on face book with regard to when it is possible to overtake a safety car regardless of if he waves you through or not!! (Calum Lockies' close shave at Dony)

scarey stuff

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by The Fat Clerk

OR- Allow overtaking as soon as green flags replace waved yellows all around the circuit.....

Now that's what I call sensible

Agreed, but that still wouldn't have helped me at Spa, I was racing with the first 8 cars when the Safety car intervened and the flags came out as I was about to lap a slow car. The Safety car was out for a very long time and there was about 70 cars in the race, we were rounding La Sorce when the guys that I was racing with were up at Le Combe !
When we actually got racing again and I could overtake the mobile chicane that caused the problem I was simply in a sprint for the last 3 laps.
OK I was credited with a 9th place but I loved my wheel to wheel racing and to go to Spa for a drive round the track on my own I wasn't best pleased !

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

thought you knew the regs Mike
it's 5 car lengths (not metres )

you perhaps were thinking of the M25....

5 metres apart is within the 'no more than 5 car lengths' in the regs so must be acceptable?

Closer the better IMO......

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

Agreed, but that still wouldn't have helped me at Spa, I was racing with the first 8 cars when the Safety car intervened and the flags came out as I was about to lap a slow car. The Safety car was out for a very long time and there was about 70 cars in the race, we were rounding La Sorce when the guys that I was racing with were up at Le Combe !
When we actually got racing again and I could overtake the mobile chicane that caused the problem I was simply in a sprint for the last 3 laps.
OK I was credited with a 9th place but I loved my wheel to wheel racing and to go to Spa for a drive round the track on my own I wasn't best pleased !

It’s not all about you, Gordon... Seriously though, was that before they introduced two safety cars at Spa for big grids? At least if you had been allowed to overtake as soon as green flags were shown the defecit wouldn’t have been so great.....

BUT, I think we all agree that the main problem is drivers not catching up the train, and that can happen at Spa with two SCs just as easily.

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

BUT, I think we all agree that the main problem is drivers not catching up the train, and that can happen at Spa with two SCs just as easily.

Agreed IF catching up the train is a good reason and not an excuse to drive flat out under SC to fill the gap.
Because I did some marshaling and was instructor I can tell you that things are different seen from the walls. May be all drivers should spend time as marshals before applying their racing licence? Would be a good thing.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Agreed IF catching up the train is a good reason and not an excuse to drive flat out under SC to fill the gap.
Because I did some marshaling and was instructor I can tell you that things are different seen from the walls. May be all drivers should spend time as marshals before applying their racing licence? Would be a good thing.

Yes, I think marshalling a couple of times as a requirement for a licence would be good. Maybe also as a ‘penance’ after a track infringement?

Re: your first sentence, drivers of slower cars can’t win. They’re told to catch up the train as quickly as possible, but can’t drive quickly. For some, ‘flat out’ would still make it difficult to catch up.

Maybe time to assert the 130% lap time rule?

[Cliff Ryan]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

BUT, I think we all agree that the main problem is drivers not catching up the train, and that can happen at Spa with two SCs just as easily.

IMHO it's drivers who have heard it all before and don't listen at the briefing that cause problems. Mike I think you have video of me shouting at a car infront that was not keeping up with the train and was being driven by someone who really should have known better.

Our recently departed Clerk JS used to ask drivers questions in the briefing, which concentrated the mind. I've also been to a meeting (CSCC?) where they included a requirement to bring a chocolate bar for the marshals to the briefing, or make a larger donation to the marshal's fund, just to see who read the instructions.

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by Cliff Ryan

IMHO it's drivers who have heard it all before and don't listen at the briefing that cause problems. Mike I think you have video of me shouting at a car in front that was not keeping up with the train and was being driven by someone who really should have known better.

Probably the same race

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Maybe time to assert the 130% lap time rule?

Oops, isn't it a new version of Pandora box? I didn't have a look to lap times in some series but guess it would keep many out of racing.

[MartinSmith]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Oops, isn't it a new version of Pandora box? I didn't have a look to lap times in some series but guess it would keep many out of racing.

will, worms, can, of, open, that

if you re arrange.... lol and agreed 100 %

[VIVA GT]

As a casual spectator in all of this I'll just throw m y ten-pennyworth in here if you don't mind. If there are any particularly slow cars tat could be causing un-necessary hold-ups, I agree with the suggestion that they are black flagged into the pits & out of the way. This is not as a punishment, it's just removing the additional hazard from the snake behind the safety car. These cars can then be held out of the way until the race is re-started, and then let back out to play on the track once the train has passed by the pits. Even if they're held in the pits for a few laps, it shouldn't affect their results if they're that slow!

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by ClaireSmith

if you re arrange.... lol and agreed 100 %

Bonjour, Madame Claire Smith. Thanks for your explanations, clear and well documented points of view and your smile. Réjouissant.

[MartinSmith]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Bonjour, Madame Claire Smith. Thanks for your explanations, clear and well documented points of view and your smile. Réjouissant.

Bonjour, J'espère que vous allez bien as we say in Essex

[Gerard C]

Malgré l'âge qui avance, inexorablement, je vais aussi bien que possible, merci. Thanks to you I had to Google the Essex history and learned about your "comté cérémonial". Not surprised to read a perfect french language from You.

[midgetman]

Don't they do the FIA regs in Portuguese?

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Mike Bell]

An update on the original point (not being able to overtake until passing the start line)..... at the recent Hungaroring event, a meeting was held to discuss the issue. An invited panel of drivers (of different nationalities) sat down with the series race director and organising supremo, and were all in agreement that the ISC regulation is far from satisfactory when applied to historic racing.

Obviously nothing can happen unless the ISC/FIA wish it to, but representation will be made, which is a result in itself!