Bathurst 50th (or is it?) [split from quotes thread]

[DAVID PATERSON]

Is anybody planning something big for next year, when it's the 50th anniversary of the first Bathurst 500.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by DAVID PATERSON

Is anybody planning something big for next year, when it's the 50th anniversary of the first Bathurst 500.

thats not really a good quote David.

But that aside why would you celebrate a 50th anniversary, surely it makes more sense to celebrate the 50th running of it.

that's what all virtually all other sports do.

[one five five]

Originally Posted by peckstar

surely it makes more sense to celebrate the 50th running of it.

And yet the race on October 7 will be the 52nd running of it

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by one five five

And yet the race on October 7 will be the 52nd running of it

I guess thats why they are calling it 50 years of Bathurst then.

That aside, do you really count those hybrid races, that hardly anyone attended?

[one five five]

Originally Posted by peckstar

I guess thats why they are calling it 50 years of Bathurst then.

How is it 50 years of Bathurst when the track has been around since 1938?

It would be much more appropriate to celebrate Mt Panorama's 75th anniversary next year

Originally Posted by peckstar

That aside, do you really count those hybrid races, that hardly anyone attended?

V8Supercars themselves seem to count the Super Touring events, the races rank #8 in their "50 Awesome Bathurst Moments" on their own website...
http://www.v8supercars.com.au/champi...4/default.aspx

The Super Touring races were run by the same people that had run the race since 1963, on the same weekend it had run on since 1963.... how could you NOT count it....

...especially as it was V8Supercars that broke away and started their own Bathurst, and in Mr Cochrane's own words they were starting their own history and traditions

Even Brocky himself said if he won the 1997 Primus 1000 Classic for V8Supercars it wouldn't count as his 10th!

[Umai Naa]

Couldn't agree more.

The Great Race stopped in 1998.

But however, boneheads will always jump on the V8SC self-entitlement bandwagon.

[FAS33]

the awkward moment when its still continuing. October 4-7 2012

[one five five]

Originally Posted by FAS33

the awkward moment when its still continuing. October 4-7 2012

What is awkward about it?

A 1000km race for V8Supercars still runs, just as it has on various weekends in October & November since 1997 when, in their own words, they started their own different race with their own history and traditions

Just because now they choose to claim the history of a race at the same track that ran on a completely different weekend & run by different people for far longer than the current incumbants, does not make it so.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by one five five

What is awkward about it?

A 1000km race for V8Supercars still runs, just as it has on various weekends in October & November since 1997 when, in their own words, they started their own different race with their own history and traditions

Just because now they choose to claim the history of a race at the same track that ran on a completely different weekend & run by different people for far longer than the current incumbants, does not make it so.

you give me the impression that you are too young to remember and your relying on Wikipedia.

Anyone , its way off topic, start a thread for it.

Classic quote I've been amused by this one from Bill Brown in a review of his 1971 Bathurst Rollover

"i smelt petrol and i asked if anyone was smoking would they kindly leave"

[FAS33]

Originally Posted by one five five

What is awkward about it?

A 1000km race for V8Supercars still runs, just as it has on various weekends in October & November since 1997 when, in their own words, they started their own different race with their own history and traditions

Just because now they choose to claim the history of a race at the same track that ran on a completely different weekend & run by different people for far longer than the current incumbants, does not make it so.

twas a joke umai said it stopped , and I said it's still going full steam ahead .... then why are they celebrating the 50th anniversary come October?

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by peckstar

you give me the impression that you are too young to remember and your relying on Wikipedia.

Haha who is relying on wikipedia? What he has written is 100% correct so I would be interested to see someone try and retell history

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

Haha who is relying on wikipedia? What he has written is 100% correct so I would be interested to see someone try and retell history

thank you for your totally unbiased opinion, unrelated to the topic though

[one five five]

Originally Posted by peckstar

you give me the impression that you are too young to remember and your relying on Wikipedia.

Been going to Bathurst, be it for the 1000, 12hr, 24hr, bikes etc..., since the 80s

Perhaps you can tell me why myself (and some others) are wrong??

Originally Posted by FAS33

then why are they celebrating the 50th anniversary come October?

Because V8Supercars are laying claim to their race this year, and the 1963 Armstrong 500 run by the ARDC, being one and the same

They seem to be adding 2 and 2 but getting 5....

[FAS33]

Originally Posted by one five five

Been going to Bathurst, be it for the 1000, 12hr, 24hr, bikes etc..., since the 80s

Perhaps you can tell me why myself (and some others) are wrong??




Because V8Supercars are laying claim to their race this year, and the 1963 Armstrong 500 run by the ARDC, being one and the same

They seem to be adding 2 and 2 but getting 5....

Im happy with 4 at least we even have a Bathurst 1000, so good on them, imagine not having to watch The great race in the last couple years

[eduardo1]

Why on earth are people still carrying on about this?

The current V8 Supercar era is part of the history of the Bathurst 500/1000. From production-based cars, to Group C, to Group A and a parallel couple of years that had Super Touring cars and V8s.

When the 'split' happened, both sides had a claim for tradition. The Super Tourers for the traditional date and organisers; the V8s as the the event had been for the competitors in the Australian Touring Car Championship (which since 1993 has been the V8s).

When the Super Tourers failed, the correct and obvious decision was to merge the history of the traditional date and the traditional category. Both Super Tourers and V8s have added to the history and prestige of 'The Great Race'. Why do we need to keep having this discussion nearly 15 years later?

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by eduardo1

Why on earth are people still carrying on about this?

The current V8 Supercar era is part of the history of the Bathurst 500/1000. From production-based cars, to Group C, to Group A and a parallel couple of years that had Super Touring cars and V8s.

When the 'split' happened, both sides had a claim for tradition. The Super Tourers for the traditional date and organisers; the V8s as the the event had been for the competitors in the Australian Touring Car Championship (which since 1993 has been the V8s).

When the Super Tourers failed, the correct and obvious decision was to merge the history of the traditional date and the traditional category. Both Super Tourers and V8s have added to the history and prestige of 'The Great Race'. Why do we need to keep having this discussion nearly 15 years later?

Lets seee have any ARDC members commented on this (either ex or current)?

There lies your answer, Still bitter that they backed the wrong horse!

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by eduardo1

Why on earth are people still carrying on about this?

You dont see any irony or hypocrisy in public stating "we will make our own stories and traditions" yet selling their event (owned and promoted by V8SA) off the history and traditions of someone else event that they didnt want a part of?

Originally Posted by eduardo1

When the Super Tourers failed, the correct and obvious decision was to merge the history of the traditional date and the traditional category.

But the traditional date is gone = no more.

[peckstar]

DRT when did the V8SA say that

and how come that was never said at the race, why have they always claimed the link even in the dark days of 97 and 98 (and 99)

I think you are showing your ARDC bias, even now on the eve of the v8s coming back to the circuit the ARDC manage the ARDC are still bitter

The ARDC did its best to destroy the Bathurst race and tradition, Fortunatly V8SA are the better man and have stepped up and acknowledged the history of when the race was ran for two races
But V8SA were unable to fix the traditional date because the ARDC stuffed that for all parties.

Anyone else rememebr the halfbreed 500 km (and then shortened) race they tried to put on us in 1999. what a disgrace!

[eduardo1]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

You dont see any irony or hypocrisy in public stating "we will make our own stories and traditions" yet selling their event (owned and promoted by V8SA) off the history and traditions of someone else event that they didnt want a part of?

But the traditional date is gone = no more.

That's not true - they did want a part of it. But they wanted a better deal for their teams and had a new broadcaster for their championship.

While I certainly don't agree with a lot of what V8SA did at the time - and they certainly made some ridiculous statements - the fact is Channel 7 had treated the ATCC very poorly over the years as it was only interested in Bathurst.

The ARDC and V8SA didn't agree so they split. ARDC needed a category to run so they went with the Super Tourers, which were both excellent events - 1997 for the diversity and drama and 1998 for Rydell's top 10 lap and the Volvo/Nissan battle.

V8SA did make their own stories and, at the time, they expected to make their own traditions because they were creating a stand-alone event.

But when the Super Touring race fell over, V8s gradually aligned itself with the traditional history of the race, including an October date.

They don't want to go back to the long weekend because it clashes with the NRL grand final and (every couple of years) with the AFL grand final. Not only does it provide a telecast clash, it competes with those codes for time and space in TV news bulletins and in newspapers.

Having it on a stand-alone weekend makes much more sense than trying to go back to a traditional date for the sake of it.

But peckstar - the ARDC didn't 'stuff' the date at all. If the V8s had turned up on the long weekend in 2000 it wouldn't have been a problem from any perspective other than the ARDC's. The V8s chose not to go back for a variety of reasons (existing contracts, stubborness etc). They claimed the link because it was:
a) in their interests to do so from a marketing and credibility perspective
b) partially accurate re: my earlier post.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by eduardo1

But peckstar - the ARDC didn't 'stuff' the date at all. If the V8s had turned up on the long weekend in 2000 it wouldn't have been a problem from any perspective other than the ARDC's. The V8s chose not to go back for a variety of reasons (existing contracts, stubborness etc). They claimed the link because it was:
a) in their interests to do so from a marketing and credibility perspective
b) partially accurate re: my earlier post.

And the Sydney Olympics were on

so by 2001 there had not be a 1000km race on the "traditional weekend" for three years. and it had been 5 years since the traditional crowd and cars eligible for the Australian touring car championship had been on that weekend

[FAS33]

Originally Posted by peckstar

And the Sydney Olympics were on

so by 2001 there had not be a 1000km race on the "traditional weekend" for three years. and it had been 5 years since the traditional crowd and cars eligible for the Australian touring car championship had been on that weekend

no matter what , theyre still celebrating their 50th Bathurst. and Ive been chekin out the top 50 awesome moments in bathurst history, should check it out on their Website.

[one five five]

Originally Posted by eduardo1

When the 'split' happened, both sides had a claim for tradition. The Super Tourers for the traditional date and organisers; the V8s as the the event had been for the competitors in the Australian Touring Car Championship (which since 1993 has been the V8s).

How can a race that broke away from the original, and was put out there as a rival to the original, claim to be part of the tradition of the race that they themselves chose to not be a part of?

For better or worse the traditional "Great Race" died a death in mid-1999 at the age of 36.

Originally Posted by eduardo1

Why do we need to keep having this discussion nearly 15 years later?

Because the organisers of a current 1000km race around Bathurst are passing it off as the same race that ran in 1963?

Why aren't they celebrating the 15th anniversary of their very successful event that has run on various weekends in October and November since 1997?? Oh yeah, thats right, it wouldn't look as sexy when selling tickets...

[FAS33]

just sayin...

[chavez]

Clearly there is a lot of emotion here, but these are the facts as I see it.

The '97 and '98 races were a continuation of the series of races of 500 miles (or 1000 kilometres) that begun in 1963. The races were held on the Sunday before the NSW Labour Day Holiday. Usually the first Sunday in October and sometimes the last Sunday in September.

The races were organised by the same club, the ARDC and telecast and supported financially by varying degrees by the Seven Network.

At times the race was part of the an Australian Championship (AMC, Championship of Makes, AEC, etc) and from 1973 to 1996 the cars that contested the ATCC were eligible to compete.

The 1997 & 98 V8 Supercar races, while better supported, were deliberately organised to compete against the traditional race. A competition they won as the Supertourer races, despite an excellent race in '97 and even better race in 1998 failed to attract the crowds.

The 1999 Labour Day race weekend was a return of sorts to the Labour Meetings organised prior to 1963. The Supertourer race was shorted due to extremely poor weather reducing visibility to a dangerous level.

From 1996 the "traditions" that many of us on this forum have when it comes to "Bathurst" would surely have moved to the V8 Supercar event. I know that it for me.

The thing I find most amusing is that "the no sacred sites" and "we'll build our own tradition" mantra has been conveniently forgotten and the "sacred site" the "borrowed" tradition has now been warmly embraced.

I am very much looking forward to the 50th running of the Great Race with the same enthusiasm as I did for the 30th or 35th or 40th.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by one five five

How can a race that broke away from the original, and was put out there as a rival to the original, claim to be part of the tradition of the race that they themselves chose to not be a part of?

For better or worse the traditional "Great Race" died a death in mid-1999 at the age of 36.




Because the organisers of a current 1000km race around Bathurst are passing it off as the same race that ran in 1963?

Why aren't they celebrating the 15th anniversary of their very successful event that has run on various weekends in October and November since 1997?? Oh yeah, thats right, it wouldn't look as sexy when selling tickets...

let see in 1996 Ford and Holden v8's car (that were eligible for the ATCC) ran exclusively at bathurst in a 1000km race using the telecaster of the ATCC.

In 1997 Ford and holden v8's car that were eligible for the ATCC ran exclusively at bathurst in a 1000km race using the telecaster of the ATCC

Teams that ran at both HRT, DJR, GSR, Perkins, Gibson, Longhurst racing and many others. Drivers that were the same in both races - more than 50. ATC champions racing, at least 6

The major differences, different weekend, different promoter, the field was bigger and the crowd was bigger

In 1997 cars that were not eligible for the ATCC ran a 1000km race using a telecaster who was the not the telecaster of the v8 race

Cars the same, none, teams the same none, drivers the same possibly ten crowd significantly smaller, size of field about 1 third smaller. ATC champiosn racing - 2
Things in common same promoter, same race weekend

Now which one sounds the most the same.