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Old 12 Jun 2011, 22:15 (Ref:2897608)   #26
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Collisons are rarely 100% the fault of one driver over another. I think Button and Schumacher were, shall we say, robust in defence, but they were marginal moves early in the race. Hamilton should have hung back. With a bit of intelligent self-preservation, he'd have won today.
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Old 12 Jun 2011, 22:21 (Ref:2897610)   #27
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Hubble should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridHubble should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Interesting then that post race Jenson stated he had apologised to Lewis.....
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Old 12 Jun 2011, 22:23 (Ref:2897611)   #28
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Interesting then that post race Jenson stated he had apologised to Lewis.....
I'm sure that Lewis also apologised to Jenson too.
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Old 12 Jun 2011, 22:23 (Ref:2897612)   #29
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Interesting then that post race Jenson stated he had apologised to Lewis.....
It's the gracrious thing to do. I wouldn't call it a total admittance of blame.
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Old 12 Jun 2011, 22:25 (Ref:2897613)   #30
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Originally Posted by Hubble View Post
Interesting then that post race Jenson stated he had apologised to Lewis.....
Which just proves that Jenson is better at media management than Lewis as well.

And that if he'd seen him he wouldn't have put him in the wall. Which doesn't exonnerate Lewis for going for a stupid move in the first place. Jenson's immediate reaction on radio was perhaps more telling. And accurate.


Edit: Or, more briefly, what Super Hans said.
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Old 12 Jun 2011, 22:25 (Ref:2897614)   #31
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stripedcat should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridstripedcat should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Overall, Lewis is the better driver. I think Lewis has learnt tactically from Jenson(look at China this year with his tyre choices). Lewis has the edge on overall speed, qualifying performance, overtaking, performance in a bad car and wet weather driving(just - Jenson is also good in the wet).

Jenson has the edge on tyre preservation, can keep his cool better on track and tactically he is better.

Lewis does need to know to calm down a bit. Maybe not go for a move on someone so early in the race.
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Old 12 Jun 2011, 22:29 (Ref:2897618)   #32
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ralf fan should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridralf fan should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridralf fan should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridralf fan should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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No. Hamilton had Button today, but for Button's uncharacteristically loutish move in a straight line. Remember Button was only ahead of Hamilton because of Schumacher's characteristically loutish move on Hamilton a few corners before...
Yes. But Hamilton was only susceptible to Schumacher's loutish move because of his loutish move on Webber.

Basically Lewis just had a poor race. He is still a better driver than Button.
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Old 12 Jun 2011, 22:35 (Ref:2897620)   #33
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Basically Lewis just had a poor race. He is still a better driver than Button.
Generally i'd agree with this, but fact remains, Lewis has now had 2 poor races on the trot and Jenson has had 2 exceptional races - i think he'd have won in Monaco too had it not been for safety cars [although Seb would have won today had it not been for safety cars], and he does now lead Lewis in the standings.

Better driver or not, it's time for Lewis to reflect on what he's doing wrong out there, 5 incidents (if we include the Schumacher one) in 2 races is too much imo.
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Old 12 Jun 2011, 22:41 (Ref:2897623)   #34
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As a Hamilton critic, I think it's also important not to be overly critical.

I have no problem with his move on Webber - he was unlucky that he understeered into him after Webber had allowed room.

I have no problem with the move (intentional or otherwise!) on Schumacher ... or indeed with Schumacher pushing him wide. Another time he may have gained from that one.

However to go for a gap between Button and the wall that was 100% inevitably about to get narrower than the width of a McLaren was just stupid.
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Old 12 Jun 2011, 22:44 (Ref:2897625)   #35
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Rule number one!

Never take your own team mate out..
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Old 12 Jun 2011, 22:45 (Ref:2897626)   #36
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Rule number one!

Never take your own team mate out..
Fortunately for Jenson, he didn't!
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Old 12 Jun 2011, 22:46 (Ref:2897627)   #37
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Rule number one!

Never take your own team mate out..
Absolutely.

Which is why Jenson would have given him room had he seen him.

But the conditions were such that he had no chance of seeing him, and Lewis should have realised that.
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Old 12 Jun 2011, 22:46 (Ref:2897628)   #38
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Yes, but who are you applying that to today, Jeremy?
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Old 12 Jun 2011, 22:49 (Ref:2897630)   #39
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As a Hamilton critic, I think it's also important not to be overly critical.

I have no problem with his move on Webber - he was unlucky that he understeered into him after Webber had allowed room.

I have no problem with the move (intentional or otherwise!) on Schumacher ... or indeed with Schumacher pushing him wide. Another time he may have gained from that one.

However to go for a gap between Button and the wall that was 100% inevitably about to get narrower than the width of a McLaren was just stupid.
Don't get me wrong, i'm not blaming Lewis for every contact. In the Schumcaher incident for example, i think it was simply a case of him braking too late.

With regards to the Webber incident, it wasn't much different from the Massa/Monza and Webber/Singapore incidents of 2010. He seem's to go for overtakes that maybe be out of reach of even his capabilities.
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Old 12 Jun 2011, 22:49 (Ref:2897631)   #40
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Yes, but who are you applying that to today, Jeremy?
Lewis as much as I love the lads racing..
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Old 12 Jun 2011, 22:50 (Ref:2897633)   #41
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Absolutely.

Which is why Jenson would have given him room had he seen him.

But the conditions were such that he had no chance of seeing him, and Lewis should have realised that.
Excuse me nodding my head but you are 100% correct IMO..
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Old 12 Jun 2011, 23:24 (Ref:2897642)   #42
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Lennon should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
If you consider someone who brings the babes back home safe and with important points, Button is far the best driver. The guy, in his conservative driving, is keeping the pace for McLaren. Never destroying a chassis, no DNFs. He didnĀ“t win at Monaco most because the stupid rule that allowed changing tires on red flag. Lewis was getting involved in controversies.
Now he did take the lead and won the race... and Lewis again DNF and is involved in controversies.
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Old 12 Jun 2011, 23:27 (Ref:2897645)   #43
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Spudgun should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpudgun should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpudgun should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I think what happened today was Lewis was in a 'go for it on the first lap' mood which seldom works in the rain.

The Webber incident was just unlucky and a racing incident, he just understeered ever so slightly after running over the kerb and it was just the lightest of brushes. But thats all you need in conditions like that. As for his race ending incident with Button it was optimistic at best and Button probably couldn't see him. I doubt he was expecting him to try and come up that side anyway, hence what he said over the radio.

You can't get away from the Senna/Prost comparison. In a straightforward race situation your money is on Lewis since with outright speed he probably has the edge. He wears his heart on his sleeve and is spectacular to watch when he's on it. With Button he adapts very quickly to changeable situations and seems to have the knack of finding where the grip is quicker than his rivals. If its not a straightforward race Button seems to be able to deal with it better and tends to come out on top.

As for cons, Lewis' 'Never Say Die' attitude gets him into trouble and Jenson's driving style tends to hamper his qualifying by not always getting the best out of his tyres.

It might not always be like this though. They've both got a championship, but Jenson has 7 years more experience in F1 so that has to count for something at the moment.
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Old 12 Jun 2011, 23:39 (Ref:2897650)   #44
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tristancliffe should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridtristancliffe should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I loved in 2010, how Lewis would overtake constantly, locking wheels, making contact, passing over 1000 people. Jenson would calmly get on with his race

At he end of the race, Jenson was usually pretty damn close to Lewis.

Is Lewis faster over a single lap? Yes. Over a race? Not so much. Does Lewis think? Nope.
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Old 13 Jun 2011, 00:03 (Ref:2897657)   #45
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Lewis probably has a tenth or two on Jens, but not all the time, but how important is that if he doesn't drive with his head? JB is a more complete Grand Prix driver.
I think Lewis is more concerned with providing a "show for his fans" as opposed to thinking of the end game.
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Old 13 Jun 2011, 00:08 (Ref:2897659)   #46
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Yes. No. Maybe. They are both good drivers with different skills.
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Old 13 Jun 2011, 01:42 (Ref:2897705)   #47
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One is a very good driver with great technical and strategical skills, a fair and competitive racer with good overtaking skills and who displays good humour and public relations as well. The other is Lewis Hamilton
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Old 13 Jun 2011, 02:23 (Ref:2897716)   #48
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One is a very good driver with great technical and strategical skills, a fair and competitive racer with good overtaking skills and who displays good humour and public relations as well. The other is Lewis Hamilton
You couldn't have said it any better than that.
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Old 13 Jun 2011, 04:00 (Ref:2897731)   #49
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N.A-D.R should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Both are great and have better qualities, Button with more better qualities to be honest.

I think the question is who would you rather employ out of the two, and my answer would be Button by a mile.
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Old 13 Jun 2011, 04:38 (Ref:2897742)   #50
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browney should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Lewis is an incredibly talented driver, but he is having far too many incidents at the moment. He seems to just put his car next to people and expect them to make it easy for him rather than worrying about making a clean move.

I'm sure it comes from having a car that isn't the fastest but this will be the case for most drivers in the season. You still have to make passes that don't mean you hit your competitors.
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