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Old 20 Jun 2011, 09:41 (Ref:2902275)   #26
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I firmly believe Jenson is a good mid-pack driver.
He is so much better than that.
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Old 20 Jun 2011, 09:46 (Ref:2902278)   #27
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How many "good mid pack drivers" win a dozen races and a WDC?
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Old 20 Jun 2011, 10:14 (Ref:2902294)   #28
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Jos Verstappen had quite a different fate

I firmly believe Jenson is a good mid-pack driver.
Jos was put into a right situation in 1994 and never recovered from it. Waay too soon for him in a top team, particularly the way that team was managed...

Jenson's never been one of my fav's, but he is clearly exploiting all of his talent at the moment. I have to admit he was one of those who once he got the right car has pretty much made the most of it! Many drivers in the past haven't been able to do that.

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Prost would be 4 - Renault/McLaren/Ferrari/Williams

How does Alonsodo?

Alonso Renault/McLaren/Renault/Ferrari ie. What do you do with a return Renault - McLaren - Renault?
Ah yes, I forgot Ferrari!! He even nearly won the title in one!!

Alonso - Renault same team same management, not sure I'd count it as 4?
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Old 20 Jun 2011, 11:32 (Ref:2902338)   #29
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Being a pedant, Brawn was under the same management (Brawn) and the same personnel but different ownership.
Probably different teams and different though because of the different engine gearbox; still not sure myself - how does that work for you?
I would say different teams in terms of a combination of a new name and new funding and the team that had elapsed. Brawn were so much utterly better than Honda that it's difficult not to see that as two teams (even though Honda would probably have had an almighty season had they stayed and obviously stuck with their own engine). Mercedes is also forging its own path.
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Old 20 Jun 2011, 12:08 (Ref:2902351)   #30
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gregc should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridgregc should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Getting back to the topic at hand

Looks like McLaren are keen to keep hold of JB - http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/92479
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Old 20 Jun 2011, 12:42 (Ref:2902362)   #31
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I can't imagine a proven winner wanting to go up against a favoured Alonso. Alonso would ultimately beat Button more anyway, but even on the occasions Button did find himself ahead, he would have to yield.

The only people I can see willing to go there are those who haven't yet won a Grand Prix and driven for such a quick team, like Kobayashi, Perez or Hulkenberg.
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Old 20 Jun 2011, 13:02 (Ref:2902373)   #32
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The only people I can see willing to go there are those who haven't yet won a Grand Prix and driven for such a quick team, like Kobayashi, Perez or Hulkenberg.
,

What about Webber? A proven winner but being pulverized by Vettel, might aswell go to Ferrari so that he can say he's done it, and be pulverized by Alonso instead.
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Old 20 Jun 2011, 13:35 (Ref:2902387)   #33
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,

What about Webber? A proven winner but being pulverized by Vettel, might aswell go to Ferrari so that he can say he's done it, and be pulverized by Alonso instead.
It would be like Ferrari swapping 6 for a half dozen...
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Old 20 Jun 2011, 13:49 (Ref:2902392)   #34
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Originally Posted by Mr V View Post
,

What about Webber? A proven winner but being pulverized by Vettel, might aswell go to Ferrari so that he can say he's done it, and be pulverized by Alonso instead.
Because at Red Bull he still theoretically has a chance of not being pulverised. At Ferrari, he would be obliged to finish behind nearly every time.

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It would be like Ferrari swapping 6 for a half dozen...
I think for Webber it would be more like that kind of swap. For Ferrari, well, they could get a driver possibly slightly better than Massa. I think he's a bit better than Massa but not by very much.
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Old 20 Jun 2011, 13:51 (Ref:2902393)   #35
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A bit better but no so much, certainly some meters that could give Massa that lost championship back in 2008...
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Old 21 Jun 2011, 16:40 (Ref:2902952)   #36
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It looks likely that Button is going to sign for McLaren again.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/200620...aren-deal.html

I suspect his race performance in Canada helped matters. I couldn't see him and Alonso working together.
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Old 21 Jun 2011, 17:36 (Ref:2902984)   #37
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If Button goes to Ferrari next year, I will eat my McLaren hat. In fact, I will angrily eat a Ferrari hat.
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Old 21 Jun 2011, 18:40 (Ref:2903025)   #38
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A bit better but no so much, certainly some meters that could give Massa that lost championship back in 2008...
But Ferrari have Alonso as their designated driver for that stuff.
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Old 21 Jun 2011, 20:41 (Ref:2903116)   #39
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knighty should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridknighty should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I really cant ever see jenson being fernandos tea boy.......I think if kobayashis form continues he will be in the 2nd red car in a year or two......peter sauber is probably waiting for the call and probably has him well contracted up.......then he will sell out for circa 15-20 million.........exactly as he did with raikkonen, he made a killing there and built that humungus wind tunnel with the raikkonen sale profits.......then kobayashi will be in his prime when alonso retires.......well thats mt 2 pence worth!
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Old 21 Jun 2011, 21:52 (Ref:2903155)   #40
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Originally Posted by stripedcat View Post
It looks likely that Button is going to sign for McLaren again.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/200620...aren-deal.html

I suspect his race performance in Canada helped matters. I couldn't see him and Alonso working together.
I can't see many drivers working with Alonso at Ferrari. Nearly 20 years of history show that No 2 at Ferrari has to be a totally servile person. And "servile" is not a common personality trait amongst F1 drivers.
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Old 21 Jun 2011, 22:13 (Ref:2903168)   #41
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Kimi took a back seat to Massa for one year...but then was shown the door for Alonso so maybe that is not a good example.

If Alonso gets a title with Ferrari by 2013 (or whenever the engine rules change) then he's entrenched as their number 1, if no title by then a Ferrari with no Alonso surely also becomes a possibility.

admittedly though i would think Seb or Hammy would be who they have their eyes on as an Alonso replacement. but if they have drives already then Button should be on their radar.
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Old 21 Jun 2011, 22:18 (Ref:2903173)   #42
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I knew he wasn't going to really but I was very slightly worried that he might make the move.

He had moved from the Merc factory team to the Hamilton-McLaren team against all sense & reason and thrived. Would he think he'd have a crack at Alonso?

My bout of paranoia was ill-founded so it proved.
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Old 21 Jun 2011, 22:34 (Ref:2903189)   #43
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I can't see many drivers working with Alonso at Ferrari. Nearly 20 years of history show that No 2 at Ferrari has to be a totally servile person. And "servile" is not a common personality trait amongst F1 drivers.
But would someone like a Kobayashi think that he knows which side his bread is buttered and fancy a chance at big results in a team like Ferrari even if he wouldn't be allowed to win the championship? It's back to Irvine's "big fish in a small pond, small fish in a big pond" analogy.
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Old 21 Jun 2011, 23:06 (Ref:2903199)   #44
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My impression is that Ferrari will always back their strongest driver.
If someone joins the team and outqualifies and out races Alonso he will be given No1 status.
If he is ahead in one race though, he will have to let Alonso through, and then only if Alonso is directly behind him.

This whole No.1 status at Ferrari is hopelessly overblown, they simply favour their fastest driver, and give him the best shot at the title!
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Old 21 Jun 2011, 23:41 (Ref:2903214)   #45
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I really cant ever see jenson being fernandos tea boy.......I think if kobayashis form continues he will be in the 2nd red car in a year or two......peter sauber is probably waiting for the call and probably has him well contracted up.......then he will sell out for circa 15-20 million.........exactly as he did with raikkonen, he made a killing there and built that humungus wind tunnel with the raikkonen sale profits.......then kobayashi will be in his prime when alonso retires.......well thats mt 2 pence worth!
He does not fit the Ferrari profile IMO...
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Old 22 Jun 2011, 10:54 (Ref:2903397)   #46
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In what respect, Jeremy?
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Old 22 Jun 2011, 11:03 (Ref:2903401)   #47
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Yeh I must admit I kinda struggle to see Kobayashi there. It'd be very interesting to see what'd happen, mind you.

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Old 22 Jun 2011, 11:36 (Ref:2903428)   #48
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Kamui Kobayashi has no links to Ferrari or any of their backers afaiaa, other than Sauber's engine supply.

Perez does though and as long as he gets back to his continuous form development this weekend and then does a good season next year he will likely be in a Ferrari in 2013.

Similarly there's about as much chance of Lewis Hamilton driving a Ferrari in a GP as there is of Juan Pablo Montoya returning from NASCAR......
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Old 22 Jun 2011, 19:23 (Ref:2904394)   #49
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If Ferrari doesn't start their own racing league in 2013.
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Old 22 Jun 2011, 19:27 (Ref:2904395)   #50
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If Ferrari doesn't start their own racing league in 2013.
So everybody will race for them !
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