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Old 28 Jul 2020, 20:40 (Ref:3991305)   #1826
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When McLaren raced in Can Am, the Gulf logo was noticeable but not that prominent.
Back in those days a petrol company decal usually only meant you were getting free petrol for the race car.
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Old 28 Jul 2020, 20:46 (Ref:3991306)   #1827
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
F25C00/C9DFEC is not F98E1D/2A52BE
True, but the blue on this McLaren F1 GTR certainly isn't C9DFEC, it's more like 2A52BE.

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Old 28 Jul 2020, 20:48 (Ref:3991308)   #1828
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True, but the blue on this McLaren F1 GTR certainly isn't C9DFEC, it's more like 2A52BE.

Agreed. And as an attempt at a Gulf livery, it just looks wrong (IMO).
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Old 28 Jul 2020, 21:01 (Ref:3991309)   #1829
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Originally Posted by Armco Bender View Post
Back in those days a petrol company decal usually only meant you were getting free petrol for the race car.
There is that, though in the '70s both the works Can Am and IndyCar teams had Gulf-McLaren on the nose of the car, so maybe they got a bit more than free gas.
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Old 30 Jul 2020, 07:15 (Ref:3991558)   #1830
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Tanker62M should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Still, I hope that influx of funding is going to allow McLaren to remain in the business in these difficult times, that was one of my favourite teams back in the early 90s when I started being interested in F1 racing.
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Old 7 Aug 2020, 03:08 (Ref:3993443)   #1831
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According to Autosport they are considering a change in aero philosophy.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/15...wrake-2021-car

They may move away from the high rake approach, but are weighing up the advantages as there is only a year left on the curent regs.
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Old 8 Aug 2020, 04:29 (Ref:3993712)   #1832
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According to Autosport they are considering a change in aero philosophy.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/15...wrake-2021-car

They may move away from the high rake approach, but are weighing up the advantages as there is only a year left on the curent regs.
When the design is static next year, how is this even a thought bubble?

2022 sure, 2021 not possible?
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Old 8 Aug 2020, 14:06 (Ref:3993796)   #1833
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On a scale that starts at a set up change and ends with a whole new monocoque this is probably nearer the start. For the article their main concern is the understanding not the actual change.
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Old 31 Dec 2020, 01:59 (Ref:4025956)   #1834
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This is a thread dredge because I want ask a question on the Honda/McLaren engine deal and how it came about. I have read some stuff but none of it actually says who first raised the idea just that McLaren had no choice for a factory deal if they did not use Honda PU's. Surely it must have gone back a few years as designing a PU this complex does not happen in 12 months so was Honda already on the development path before the Mercedes divorce?
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Old 31 Dec 2020, 03:00 (Ref:4025963)   #1835
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This is a thread dredge because I want ask a question on the Honda/McLaren engine deal and how it came about. I have read some stuff but none of it actually says who first raised the idea just that McLaren had no choice for a factory deal if they did not use Honda PU's. Surely it must have gone back a few years as designing a PU this complex does not happen in 12 months so was Honda already on the development path before the Mercedes divorce?
I assume yes. I also assume Honda used a process that was roughly...

1. Start with internal interest at Honda to reenter F1 as PU supplier (maybe as constructor)
2. Perform feasibility studies after examining regulations and performance levels of current field. This would be potentially include some level of engineering studies (can we do this, do we have unique ideas, etc) plus budget and time estimations to achieve specific/desired goals.
3. Tentative approval with need for customer/partner team.
4. Final approval based upon customer plan.
As I say above, I expect McLaren dropped into their lap in the middle of the above. I expect only Honda can say how much R&D work was done prior to a firm decision to move forward.

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Old 1 Jan 2021, 01:33 (Ref:4026187)   #1836
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Probably something like that but I wonder who actually took the first step, Honda because they knew of the Mercedes departure from the team or McLaren because they could see things with Honda were not going to last. I suspect from someone in the mix had stars in their eyes because of the success they both had enjoyed previously and thought it was repeatable. I suppose that much is fairly obvious in retrospect but circumstances gave that idea a kick into the outfield.
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Old 1 Jan 2021, 03:00 (Ref:4026197)   #1837
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Or from Ron as there was no pressure to leave Merc but he knew that nobody ever won a (race, let alone a) championship with a customer engine.
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Old 1 Jan 2021, 11:36 (Ref:4026253)   #1838
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Maybe too McLaren felt they could achieve more being in partnership with an engine manufacturer rather than being a customer of Merc. It seems to me Ron has always preferred his team to be an engine supplier’s No. 1 choice
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Old 1 Jan 2021, 18:44 (Ref:4026322)   #1839
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Originally Posted by peebee2 View Post
Or from Ron as there was no pressure to leave Merc but he knew that nobody ever won a (race, let alone a) championship with a customer engine.
You must be new to the sport.
The most recent championship won with customer engines: 2010 (and 2009 before that).
The most recent race won with a customer engine: 2020 (two of them!)

That's only counting teams who are not prime customers of an engine supplier.
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Old 1 Jan 2021, 18:49 (Ref:4026323)   #1840
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You must be new to the sport.
The most recent championship won with customer engines: 2010 (and 2009 before that).
The most recent race won with a customer engine: 2020 (two of them!)
2010 was won by a works motor. If you were there you’d know.

2009 was why Whitmarsh fell out of favour after letting the Honda works chassis be married to the Merc lump, totally against Ron’s wishes.

How many races have been won by customer motors since the hybrid era started in 2014?

Understand the latter and you’ll see why RD wanted out of using Merc as he knew Daimler wouldn’t allow a customer to beat the factory team.
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Old 1 Jan 2021, 19:20 (Ref:4026329)   #1841
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You must be new to the sport.
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If you were there you’d know.
OK OK. We don’t need a battle of who can be most patronizing.
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Old 1 Jan 2021, 19:49 (Ref:4026339)   #1842
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2009 was why Whitmarsh fell out of favour after letting the Honda works chassis be married to the Merc lump, totally against Ron’s wishes.

Whitmarsh had nothing to do with the Honda works chassis being married to the Merc lump. That was a deal Ross Brawn struck with Mercedes. Whitmarsh was ousted from his position as CEO of McLaren Racing and McLaren Group in 2013 following an uncompetitive season, with McLaren finishing 5th in the WCC.
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Old 1 Jan 2021, 20:05 (Ref:4026344)   #1843
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Whitmarsh had nothing to do with the Honda works chassis being married to the Merc lump. That was a deal Ross Brawn struck with Mercedes. Whitmarsh was ousted from his position as CEO of McLaren Racing and McLaren Group in 2013 following an uncompetitive season, with McLaren finishing 5th in the WCC.
Absolutely not. Merc were not contractually free to provide engines. As part of their works contract McLaren had a veto over who could also get the engine. Whitmarsh was persuaded to waive that veto much to Ron’s outrage.

But as he’d been sidelined he couldn’t do anything about. When he finally regained control Whitmarsh was immediately going to be history.

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Old 1 Jan 2021, 20:11 (Ref:4026347)   #1844
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Absolutely not. Merc were not contractually free to provide engines. As part of their works contract McLaren had a veto over who could also get the engine. Whitmarsh was persuaded to waive that veto much to Ron’s outrage.

But as he’d been sidelined he couldn’t do anything about. When he finally regained control Whitmarsh was immediately history.

How was Whitmarsh persuaded to waive that veto?
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Old 1 Jan 2021, 20:18 (Ref:4026349)   #1845
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How was Whitmarsh persuaded to waive that veto?
Gawd knows, heard plenty of theories on that one.

Here’s a very polite version:

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/a...-happen-anyone
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Old 1 Jan 2021, 20:27 (Ref:4026351)   #1846
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Gawd knows, heard plenty of theories on that one.

Here’s a very polite version:

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/a...-happen-anyone

There's precious little about Martin Whitmarsh in that article but plenty about Adrian Reynard.
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Old 1 Jan 2021, 20:32 (Ref:4026352)   #1847
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“Thanks largely to the intervention of McLaren boss Martin Whitmarsh, Mercedes stepped in with an engine deal that would lead Brawn’s team to the most unlikely World Championship we’d ever seen.“

I think it’s clear enough to contradict your utterly false claim that Whitmarsh had nothing to do with it!
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Old 1 Jan 2021, 21:22 (Ref:4026357)   #1848
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“Thanks largely to the intervention of McLaren boss Martin Whitmarsh, Mercedes stepped in with an engine deal that would lead Brawn’s team to the most unlikely World Championship we’d ever seen.“

I think it’s clear enough to contradict your utterly false claim that Whitmarsh had nothing to do with it!

I stand corrected on that; no need to get excited. However, that still doesn't explain how or why Whitmarsh was persuaded to waive that veto.
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Old 1 Jan 2021, 21:41 (Ref:4026361)   #1849
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I stand corrected on that; no need to get excited. However, that still doesn't explain how or why Whitmarsh was persuaded to waive that veto.
Ok.

Don’t know. Heard various ideas from sporting fair play to more, er, pecuniary reasons and everything in between.

Has to rank as one of the worst decisions in F1 history (from his own team’s point of view). Should have let them have the Cosworth.

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Old 1 Jan 2021, 22:17 (Ref:4026370)   #1850
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OK OK. We don’t need a battle of who can be most patronizing.
Not patronising. I just called out someone on spreading falsehoods.
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How many races have been won by customer motors since the hybrid era started in 2014?
Contrary to what you're suggesting, it's a lot more than zero. And that's just in the relatively recent past. You claimed "never".
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