[VASC2018R30R31] Coates Hire Newcastle 500, 23-25 Nov (WITH POLL)

[chavez]

Originally Posted by JAFA851

Exactly, getting tired of this, giving post race penalties for something that happened well before the end doesn't give the driver any chance to recover from the penalty. It's either a rule breach or it isn't, if they can't decide within 3 laps, then the rule isn't clear enough and the investigation should be dropped and the rule sorted out before the next meeting.

Yep.

Which other sports have post event investigations that effect the outcome to degree and regularity of Supercars?

[Driver TBA]

SVG loses win. 25 second penalty applied.

The replay doesn't lie. Fuel hose was still coupled when the wheels hit the deck.



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[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Driver TBA

SVG loses win. 25 second penalty applied.

The replay doesn't lie. Fuel hose was still coupled when the wheels hit the deck.



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Story Here

Can the Malachi Crunch happen 2 years in a row?

[Driver TBA]

Should have been delt with during the race. There was more than enough evidence and was pretty clear cut.

SVG would have had a chance to recover and could have finished better than 5th. We know his teammate would have rolled over.

Scotty would have conserved more and probably taken the flag with at least a few teaspoons in the tank.



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[JAFA851]

You can clearly see the air jack guy pulled the hose when the refuelling guy tugged the fuel hose to remove it. But it got stuck a bit and he had to give a second yank on it to uncouple it, by which time the car had hit the ground. Not against the intent of the rule, and no advantage gained ( could argue it cost them a second or so ), and hardly a safety issue as no other work was being done on the car. Big call, helped by an "incentive" from DJRTP?

Everybody is always going on about how Roland has got the officials in his pocket and gets away with everything. Well obviously DJRTP are giving better backhanders these days. Two meetings in a row ( this + the 5 second penalty at Pukekohe ) both when 888 have got DJRTP on the ropes. Dunno how DJRTP can loose the Championship now, and even if they do Supercars will give out some hard-arsed penalty after the race to make sure they get the win.

Who's brave ( or stupid? ) enough to put money down at the TAB on anyone but #17?

[JAFA851]

Originally Posted by Driver TBA

Should have been delt with during the race. There was more than enough evidence and was pretty clear cut.

SVG would have had a chance to recover and could have finished better than 5th. We know his teammate would have rolled over.

Scotty would have conserved more and probably taken the flag with at least a few teaspoons in the tank.



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Exactly. Pretty hard to think the result is not already decided, and the trophy already engraved. Wonder how much it cost them?

[Backagain]

Lowndesy will do his thing again.

[Driver TBA]

Originally Posted by JAFA851

You can clearly see the air jack guy pulled the hose when the refuelling guy tugged the fuel hose to remove it. But it got stuck a bit and he had to give a second yank on it to uncouple it, by which time the car had hit the ground. Not against the intent of the rule, and no advantage gained ( could argue it cost them a second or so ), and hardly a safety issue as no other work was being done on the car. Big call, helped by an "incentive" from DJRTP?

Everybody is always going on about how Roland has got the officials in his pocket and gets away with everything. Well obviously DJRTP are giving better backhanders these days. Two meetings in a row ( this + the 5 second penalty at Pukekohe ) both when 888 have got DJRTP on the ropes. Dunno how DJRTP can loose the Championship now, and even if they do Supercars will give out some hard-arsed penalty after the race to make sure they get the win.

Who's brave ( or stupid? ) enough to put money down at the TAB on anyone but #17?

No one ever intends to breach a pitstop rule. 99% of the time they're unintentional, but that doesn't excuse them from a penalty. Gain or no gain.

Why on earth would you believe DJRTP would need to pay off officials for this blatant breach.


Who decided to investigate this post race? Officials themselves, or prodded by a team.



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[Umai Naa]

100% should've been dealt with in the race.

Much like the wheelspin thing the other week.

I'd like to see some further fine tuning of how and when suitable punishments should be applied. Given that 75% of the race hadn't been played out at that stage, it definitely should've been dealt with during the race itself.

[JAFA851]

Originally Posted by Driver TBA

Why on earth would you believe DJRTP would need to pay off officials for this blatant breach.

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Well you tell me was not a word uttered about this by anyone during the race? Because it was in their interests to sit on it and then protest after the race, and most importantly have whatever penalty applied after the race when there was no chance to recover from it. They saw what happened at Pukekohe when the penalty was applied during the race…...

[mayhem]

Dear God. Last year's conspiracy theorists over McLaughlin losing the title were out of control. Now it seems we are in for a new batch from the other side. If you're older than 14, surely it's time to drop off the 'Roger/Roland paid off the officials' gear.

[JAFA851]

Here's one for you. When the team screws up, like they did yesterday, and the driver doesn't gain any advantage, yet a rule is broken, why can't the team be penalised / fined / team points taken away etc? and leave the driver alone? The driver didn't screw up yet he's the one that cops the pineapple for it, and you get crap like what just happened. Yes it's a team game, but you need to penalised the correct party.

[chavez]

I'm a 35 year DJR fan, but I just shake my head at that penalty.

Clearly it is a breach but the penalty must be handed out during the race.

It is not so much that Triple Eight should have got away for it, but trolling through footage to detect a breach has no part in sport and if the officials don't pick up a breach during the race then that's poor officialdom - do we analysis every moment of a football game to look for breaches and then apply penalties retrospectively?

[kittle]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

100% should've been dealt with in the race.

Much like the wheelspin thing the other week.

I'd like to see some further fine tuning of how and when suitable punishments should be applied. Given that 75% of the race hadn't been played out at that stage, it definitely should've been dealt with during the race itself.

All penalties should be dealt with during the race. If the race has reach more then 85%, then yes may be you could consider post race investigation.

When you are a top level team fighting for the win this is what’s always going to happen! That camera is watching every little thing the team and driver does. And in this case the punishment has been dealt a massive blow for T8.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by chavez

It is not so much that Triple Eight should have got away for it, but trolling through footage to detect a breach has no part in sport and if the officials don't pick up a breach during the race then that's poor officialdom - do we analysis every moment of a football game to look for breaches and then apply penalties retrospectively?

It does seem a very heavy handed penalty, and I agree that if it isn't picked up and penalised during the race it should be left.

And the conspiracy theorists claiming Roland has everyone on the payroll after the last race controversy - you can't deal with them.

They see evidence of the conspiracy, but a lack of evidence just shows a HIDDEN conspiracy.

The officials are consistently inconsistent and now they've probably handed the title to Scotty Mac when I would have liked to see a ding-dong battle on track today.

But in the heat of battle, 888 did make the mistake.

[Driver TBA]

The cams investigation was interesting. Despite Dutto's initial protest of it being nothing more than a perfectly timed pitstop. 888 did not dispute the fact the wheels hit the ground, but based their argument on the term 'refuelling'.

If Scotty wins by less then 51 points, do 888 protest the penalty? They do have form in challenging championship results.

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[fomoco]

Originally Posted by kittle

All penalties should be dealt with during the race. If the race has reach more then 85%, then yes may be you could consider post race investigation.

When you are a top level team fighting for the win this is what’s always going to happen! That camera is watching every little thing the team and driver does. And in this case the punishment has been dealt a massive blow for T8.

It is easy to say all penalties must done within a race. I will point out, that for a matter to be referred to the stewards , doesn't always happen during the actual race.
Under any CAMS sanctioned event, yes it can happen. I know this as I am
a Steward.
For a lot of ppl, they do not read the cams Manual properly.

It clearly states the Supercars run under their own manual.
The stewards cannot , I repeat cannot charge teams drivers etc.
The Clerk of the Course, the Race Director, the Driving Standards are the ones who after observing and incident, and reports from the track marshals, pitlane officials review the incidents , then decide if a breach has occurred.


If you read the findings , the DRD is the one who brought the charge, no the stewards.

So please understand, sometimes thing post race

[Driver TBA]

Originally Posted by Driver TBA

Should have been delt with during the race. There was more than enough evidence and was pretty clear cut.

SVG would have had a chance to recover and could have finished better than 5th. We know his teammate would have rolled over.

Scotty would have conserved more and probably taken the flag with at least a few teaspoons in the tank.



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Thinking about this again. The post race penalty probably hurt a lot less. Given it happened under a safety car, he would of taken the drive thru within a few laps of going green. Last place to 5th would have been a very big ask.

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[JAFA851]

Well maybe Supercars need to change their manual than? Some things might still need to be looked at after the race ( if they happened very close to the end of the race ), but it the issue isn't raised before the chequered flag dropped, tough luck. No more bringing things up after the race.

[champcarman]

Originally Posted by Backagain

Lowndesy will do his thing again.

What thing? Be lucky again ?

[Mixer]

No, be taken out by an impetuous young charger whose moment got the better of his judgement on a very big day.

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[GTRMagic]

So.... what’s going to happen this afternoon?
It’s a gorgeous day here in Newcastle.
A very strong sun, and a cool breeze coming off the water

Who will do the do...

It is still hard to go past 888... strategy wise they should have the edge...

[JAFA851]

Originally Posted by Mixer

No, be taken out by an impetuous young charger whose moment got the better of his judgement on a very big day.

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He got himself taken out by sticking his nose in a gap that wasn't really there, and was deminishing. Typical dirty racer that he is, and it ended up costing Scotty the Championship. Can't wait to see the back of Lowndes. Good bye and good riddance.

[Driver TBA]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

It is still hard to go past 888... strategy wise they should have the edge...

Let the 888 cars lead, tuck in behind and mirror their strategy.

Reynolds on pole with SVG directly behind and Scotty in 2nd on the clean side.
Does Reynolds still hold a grudge over PI 2015? Not saying Reynolds would do anything untoward, but I'm tipping he'll play for sheep stations with SVG.


Far from settled. Anyone's race. SVG still has a massive chance.

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[GTRMagic]

Unless something odd happens.... it’s decided...