Lewis Hamilton

[Bibendum]

A short while back, someone posted a question about when F1 would have a black/openly gay/female/Muslim driver, and this spurred some interesting discussion. One thread in common, as one would expect, was that the basic requirement was (to paraphrase T.S. Eliot) to just be very good. Well, here is an article in today's Guardian online that suggests the possibility that an Englishman, of Trinidadian extraction, may answer the question once and for all.

Hamilton smashes the barriers

I for one think this would be a healthy development, not because F1 has some mandate to be demographically representative, but because its (almost) pure white complexion speaks, to me, of a degree of exclusion and class-boundness that makes me uncomfortable.

Has anyone in Britain seen this guy race? I'd be interested to hear about it.

best,
Bibendum (and sorry for the lousy intermediates!)

[BootsOntheSide]

In fact it was I who posted the thread in question, its something of a pet issue of mine, as it seems ridiculous, but as everyone has said, we don't want a token black driver, we want ideally the world's 22 best drivers, of whom you would expect more than 1 to not be white or Oriental.

I have seen Lewis race and he looks extremely impressive, I've certainly seen nothing to suggest that he isn't giood enough for F1, but showing that you are good enough is a lot harder in such beginner-level championships. It may well be that because of the Mercedes backing he's had, his development has occurred earlier than most, and perhaps he will reach the limit of his abilities earlier than others. Undoubtedly getting him into F1 would be great marketing kudos for Mercedes.

[El_Gibleto]

If he hadn't been involved in a serious accident, Jason Watt woould probably have been in F1 by now. Jason was testing for Benetton and a top F3000 driver when he was involved in a motorbike accident leaving him confined to a wheelchair, but still capable of driving, with hand controls, in the Danish touring car championship and fia sportscar series. Still Fast too.

[Valve Bounce]

Surely you are not suggesting that JPM is pure white? He has a lovely olive complexion.
And if I remember correctly, so did Fangio, and he won quite a few races too.

Valve[img]http://www.**************************/smilies/bouncy.gif[/img]

[alesi95]

Sato is technically yellow .

[downforce]

Senna? Tan?

[f1manoz]

I don't really get this thread about the colour of skin. Is it that important?

I don't care if the driver was green with pink polka dots and is a Buddhist homosexual, as long as he/she was skillful and deserved to be there....

[BootsOntheSide]

The point behind it is that in most other sports there seems to be a disproportionately high black prescence, yet F1 has not had any, ever. I wonder if there is an element of (perhaps unconscious) discrimination involved. Manoz's view may be a unique one among team bosses.

US NBA basketball is the extreme case, but for example only around maybe 10% of males of soccer playing age in the UK are black, yet look at England's recent world cup squad- James, Sinclair, Heskey, Vassell, Campbell, Ashley Cole and Ferdinand all black or mixed. Countries like Ireland, Germany and Poland all have very small nonwhite populations, yet included black players in their squads. (On the other hand, most nations, including the African ones, have white coaches, but that's another story, and not really F1-relevant)

Tennis and golf were white-dominated, but as soon as Woods and the Williams sisters came along, top titles are being won by them with almost monotonous regularity, could the same thing happen in F1? Is a driver out there lost to F1 despite having comparable talent to Senna or Schumacher, jsut through being black (or Muslim / gay / woman)? Certainly many top female athletes past and present are known lesbians, yet virtually none are known gay (I can only think of 1 openly gay soccer player ever)

[freud]

Originally posted by f1manoz
I don't really get this thread about the colour of skin. Is it that important?

I don't care if the driver was green with pink polka dots and is a Buddhist homosexual, as long as he/she was skillful and deserved to be there....

Agree 100%.

[MrTTraces]

yeah i've seen lewis race. hes good and has a great racing future ahead of him.

[bella]

lewis has got the mentality of michael schumacher. he's a friend of mine, and i can talk to him about totally random stuff, he'll be concentrated on that conversation, then the next thing you know he's got in the car and set a fastest lap of anyone. he's a fantastic lad too.

he's a smart kid, and he's going to do very well.

[djb]

Bella,(or whoever) the last time I saw something about him on the tube over here, he looked about 12, how old is he now, 16 or 17?

[Jukebox]

Originally posted by Bibendum
A short while back, someone posted a question about when F1 would have a black/openly gay/female/Muslim driver,

Interesting.....Yoong's dad is a muslim (Hanafiah Yoong), not sure about Alex though.

[Paul Rayner]

Lewis is now 17, and competing in his first season in the Formula Renault UK Championship. He's currently fourth in the standings, having had three podium places from the six rounds so far (one in each place), as well as making up 18 places in 18 laps at one race, in a slicks and wings formula.

The guy is certainly impressive, and I see no reason why he shouldn't get to F1. He's definitely talented, and he's one talented British driver who won't have to worry about budget, thanks to the McLaren backing.

[Jonny Apex]

His team in Formula Renault, Manor, also ran Kimi in 2000. Lewis, according to the replies I'm getting, could well be in the same league ...

The boy's racing at Croft this weekend (14th July) if anyone fanices taking a look at him. There are some pretty good other drivers in that field too.

[Nicholas]

Originally posted by BootsOntheSide
The point behind it is that in most other sports there seems to be a disproportionately high black prescence, yet F1 has not had any, ever. I wonder if there is an element of (perhaps unconscious) discrimination involved.

Maybe, but that would mean that the discrimination would be happening all the way down throughout the other series.

[Bibendum]

I think the 'discrimination' occurs more at the level of a distinction of socioeconomic class. It takes a lot of cash to get into motor sport so, for the same reason equestrians, tennis players and ice-skaters tend to come from the middle and upper class fractions, car racing at all levels tends to draw from a pool which is overwhelmingly white.

But, you may say, is there not -- in the US, in France, in UK, etc. -- an increasingly affluent non-white (absurd term, as if everything has to be defined in relation to whiteness!) middle and even upper class? Yup. So why no corresponding penetration of the products of these classes to motor sport? I'd say it's a history effect: irrespective of other standing in society and economics, certain activities have an inertia, a resistance to the new which both discourages potential aspirants from entering at the lower formulae (in the case of motor sport) and from gaining proper support and entrée if nevertheless they do go for it.

So it's not, I am confident, a result of any individual prejudice so much as an institutional "going with what it knows" that keeps F1 (etc.) so lily white. I'd even be willing to say that there's an element of 'restrictive trade practice' in here, because privilege (e.g. affirmative action for straight, white, christian males) tends to know when it's threatened, and tends to close ranks, even if its individual beneficiaries are people of good will and personally wish for an 'even playing field.'

And, yes, Montoya has a lovely olive complexion, Yoong's father is Muslim, women have attempted to qualify, and so on. But *in general* we are talking about a real issue, and a phenomenon that is worth discussing, pace Freud and F1manoz.

As I noted in my initial response to boots' post, if all else were equal -- no distortions in a pure meritocratic system -- then Freud's and F1manoz's positions would make perfect sense. And one wishes all else *were* equal; but as the discussions of (say) Alex Yoong vs. Justin Wilson illustrate, other factors are very decidedly in play.

For those who've commented on Hamilton's racing, etc., many thanks for the interesting gen.

[Speed]

Originally posted by f1manoz
...Buddhist homosexual...

[Bibendum]

Speed, perhaps you could expand on your amusement? I don't actually get the relation between f1manoz's remark and the laughing blue face. Thanks.

[freud]

Bibendum, Thanks for explaining the rationale behind starting the thread. I agree with you that race is a valid issue in all walks of life, including sports, it always has been. Though its just not 'in' to discuss race these days. It has become more of a taboo subject, specially here in the US.

To be honest with you I think whats more fascinating than the 'race' issue is the difference in thinking between the European and the American sportsmen. Just take Juan Pablo Montoya, for example. The man is a great driver, but, imho, (sorry if that offends anyone), he has yet to learn the art of PR in a European environment. The way he is now, open, loud, speaks his mind (sort of like Bobby Rahal) doesnt win him many friends in the paddock. Its will be fascinating to see if he learns the European way... i.e. being 'excruciatingly politically correct'. I doubt it though. If he does though, he will win many titles like TGF. Just a point to ponder.

[Bibendum]

Freud, an interesting point; I'm not sure it's a Euro vs. the rest thing, though: I believe what we're seeing is the 'mainstreaming' of people working at the very top level, where outspokenness is seen as likely to compromise corporate image, sponsor relations, and "the bottom line." We can see this development in the very careful grooming given to all McLaren people, the neat and tidy desks, etc. etc. Which is to say, I don't believe it's an issue of 'political correctness' in the sense you mean: It's not a social 'party line' that's being toed -- it's the result of corporations wishing to avoid alienating anyone...for advertising purposes.

I have to say, incidentally -- and this is not meant as a criticism of you! -- that the term "political correctness" has become an almost entirely vacant term of invective rather than a useful phrase. It began as a joking (and critical) reference on the left to those who were very 'by the book' part-liners; it then migrated to the center where it signified (in a vaguely positive way, briefly) any organized urge to attack prejudice and injustice; and now has been whole-heartedly adopted by the right as a means of skewering anything seen as threatening to the status quo, however repugnant that may be. Thus, terms like "feminazi" which I find incredibly unpleasant and ignorant, and which have even cropped up in this forum on at least one occasion that I can remember. The simplest thing to say about these responses is that they are defensive, signalling a sense of being threatened.

And, again, that's why I don't think you're quite right about the geographical meaning of JPM's willingness to talk (what about Eddie Irvine? Or, for that matter, JV?), because the 'defensiveness' at issue is a corporate touchiness about upsetting *anyone* rather than anything directly to do with prejudice and justice. Of course, this leads to blandness, just as stupid people who (with good, if doltish, intentions) try to enact half-baked socially positive rules end up making a nonsense of the very issue they were trying to redress (as in, "zero tolerance" -- a denial of the human capacity to make sensible decisions...).

But, as Dennis Miller always says, that's just *my* opinion! (See also my sig...)

I should add that I definitely wish for more authentic utterances from F1 personnel. I enjoyed hearing that Ron Dennis simply said "I'd rather not say" when asked about pit stop strategies before a race, rather than waffling; I get a kick out of JV criticising Michael Schumacher; I am thouroughly fed up with the entirely predictable things that are said in the unilateral press conference (and think that Kimi needs to get a personality, or at least some way to fake one in public); and although I'm not a big JPM fan, I do appreciate that he seems to have a sense of humour. For this reason I really miss Mika Hakkinen, who was much funnier and revealing than most people seemed to notice.

But the smoothing out of differences will continue apace, as investors and managers get more and more nervous, which will make the occasional unguarded utterance all the more precious, hilarious and inspiring.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by freud

Just take Juan Pablo Montoya, for example. The man is a great driver, but, imho, (sorry if that offends anyone), he has yet to learn the art of PR in a European environment. The way he is now, open, loud, speaks his mind (sort of like Bobby Rahal) doesnt win him many friends in the paddock.

I think it's rather refreshing to listen to the likes of Montoya, Irvine and Villeneuve, drivers who speak their minds! Although i liked Mika, having to listen to his mono-tone answers was extremely boring, or DC (as well as Mika) who towed the "company line" in interviews etc.

Each to their own on this subject, but its abit like drving styles, who wants to watch a very smooth, but outwardly boring (cos it's so smooth) driver when they can watch a driver who has a twitch in the corner or runs wide on the exit etc! much more exciting!

[freud]

Bibendum, You mention JV and Eddie.. I will take Eddie out as he never had the talent of either JPM or JV. Do you think that in his 7 years of formula one, JV has lived up to his ultimate potential? I think not. Reason... the fact that he failed to understand the dynamics of PR and made one mistake after the other in criticizing the people who matter most. He is probably the most 'politically incorrect' driver of the past decade. At least we know that Mclarens will never hire someone like him.

Now, where I agree with you is the part when you write:

"...that the term "political correctness" has become an almost entirely vacant term of invective rather than a useful phrase. It began as a joking (and critical) reference on the left to those who were very 'by the book' part-liners; it then migrated to the center where it signified (in a vaguely positive way, briefly) any organized urge to attack prejudice and injustice; and now has been whole-heartedly adopted by the right as a means of skewering anything seen as threatening to the status quo, however repugnant that may be."

Agreed.

mr v, Fans love these drivers. Its just that sports have become so corporate & sponsor-oriented that a driver is expected to speak what is the best for the company.

[Mr V]

I agree that it's better for the teams and sponsers to have a PR friendly driver (DC's a good example of this, Jackie Stewart taught him well!) but my point is, for the fans, guys like us, drivers like JPM, JV and EI, who speak their minds and add to the "mystique" of F1 are far more entertaining!

[freud]

Offcourse.