Group A BMW 635 CSi - a popular, solid performer - Page 8

cavvy · 10 Feb 2007, 06:04 (Ref:1837876)

What is the race history David? Presents like the Kent Baigent car of the time.

Trust the Philip Island plans for the M3 are all go.

William Dale Jr · 10 Feb 2007, 07:01 (Ref:1837888)

I don't think it can be the Baigent car; that car was comprehensively written off in a big accident in late 1985 at Manfield.

David Towe · 10 Feb 2007, 08:30 (Ref:1837908)

Quote:

Originally Posted by cavvy

What is the race history David? Presents like the Kent Baigent car of the time.

Trust the Philip Island plans for the M3 are all go.

M3 preparations are going well, gearbox now rebuilt (had to make one good one from two bad ones as parts are so hard to find) and brake discs are being machined next week. If I can finish my new trailer in time I'll be a very happy individual.

I'll find out the full history of the 635 and let you know as soon as I get a reply

KA · 10 Feb 2007, 10:14 (Ref:1837941)

Quote:

Originally Posted by cavvy

What is the race history David? Presents like the Kent Baigent car of the time.

Trust the Philip Island plans for the M3 are all go.

Baigent's car was ex-Schnitzer- think it was the Ravaglia/Berger 1984 ETCC chassis from what's been posted earlier in the thread. This one, from the reference to Gartlan Grace Racing is more likely to be an ex-Frank Sytner car

KA · 10 Feb 2007, 10:17 (Ref:1837942)

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Towe

M3 preparations are going well, gearbox now rebuilt (had to make one good one from two bad ones as parts are so hard to find) and brake discs are being machined next week. If I can finish my new trailer in time I'll be a very happy individual.

I'll find out the full history of the 635 and let you know as soon as I get a reply

David, if you can fill in the history of this one it would be a great help- what's been suggested earlier in the thread is that it's one of the cars that Frank Sytner sold on to Australia/NZ, but not sure if it's one of his ex-BTCC chassis, or a car originally raced as a Group N production saloon in the UK- (probably by Barrie Williams from memory) I think the conclusion we reached is that it's the latter

**chunterer** · 10 Feb 2007, 11:46 (Ref:1837992)

Quote:

Originally Posted by KA

David, if you can fill in the history of this one it would be a great help- what's been suggested earlier in the thread is that it's one of the cars that Frank Sytner sold on to Australia/NZ, but not sure if it's one of his ex-BTCC chassis, or a car originally raced as a Group N production saloon in the UK- (probably by Barrie Williams from memory) I think the conclusion we reached is that it's the latter

I've got a pic of an '85 Sytner car but it is definitely Grp A.

I'll scan it next week as it could be the car?

Also got a very small shot of the car Whizzo drove in 1984 in prodsaloons which could also be the car! I'll see how it comes out if I scan and enlarge it but i'm not confident it'll show up well.

Jesper OH · 10 Feb 2007, 16:03 (Ref:1838131)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMICALEMANS

Here is a weird one !

http://www.racingsportscars.com/phot...-08-24-050.jpg

This is German Reinhold Wolter in his group H-spec. BMW 635CSi on a guest visit to the Blaupunkt Nordic Super Saloon Car round at Jyllands-Ringen, Denmark. This combo wasn't competitive with the M1s or space frame Chevy Camaros and other goodies. I think he made at least one other appearence at the annual "Grand Prix" of Jyllands-Ringen.

KA · 10 Feb 2007, 17:12 (Ref:1838170)

Do you know anything about the spec of the car- is it an ex-Group A chassis that Wolter had modified by any chance, an older Group 2 car, or something built up from a road car shell?

Jesper OH · 10 Feb 2007, 17:19 (Ref:1838176)

Sorry, no, but I can add that Wolter was racing in the German Spezial Tourenwagen Meisterschaft at least as recent as 1996.

Jesper

ian beckett · 10 Feb 2007, 18:46 (Ref:1838210)

If you look for Skope Classic 2007 on Google you will find sites which contain photos from this recent meeting of 'historic' cars in New Zealand.Amongst them is a 635 as driven by Frank Sytner/John Morton at the 1985 Wellington race.I think the colours are accurate but not all of the sponsorship to how it looked that day.

KA · 10 Feb 2007, 21:11 (Ref:1838278)

This one?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/1922930...7594513564223/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/1922930...7594513564223/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/1922930...7594513564223/

Some nice machinery at that event- noticed an ex-Prodrive M3 amongst others...

Jesper OH · 11 Feb 2007, 05:43 (Ref:1838450)

...but that front spoiler looks like that of the M635CSi!

Jesper

Gerard Hodges · 11 Feb 2007, 09:28 (Ref:1838505)

Hi KA,
My name is Gerry Hodges & I currently own Chassis # E24 RA2/46. It is the car that is for sale. I have been trying to track the race history of this car for the past 5 years incl a letter sent to BMW Car magazine, but unfortunately no response from that. I have a letter from BMW Motorport confirming that ny car is Chassis # 46 & it was supplied to Gartlan/Grace racing, UK. I emailed Jeremy Walton & he passed on Ted Grace's phone number.
I spoke to Ted Grace before he passed away & he confirmed that this chassis # is the car that was built to Grp N spec & raced by Barry "Whizzo" Williams. He also suggested that the car may have been in Grp A trim before it's life as a Grp N car. He was a bit vague on this. He was going to do some research for me & put it all in writing, but unfortunately he passed away before this had been done.
David Towe has since put me onto this site.
If you could supply me with any information, photos, race results etc of the car racing in Grp N trim, I would be very grateful.
The car is in outstanding condition - it is true that the original New Zealand owner took the cage out & drove the car as a road car. I do have access to the original alloy cage. The car now has a welded in, steel cage to the exact specs of the previous alloy one.
I use the car in Classic/Historic racing & Tarmac Targa Rally events.
I find it ironic that I have been trying to track the history of the car in the UK with little success & when I decide to sell it all this information comes forward.
I can fill in a few of the gaps regarding Grp A 635s in NZ.
Chassis # E24 RA2/01 - ex Eggenburger car - is being restored to it's original Eggenburger trim here in NZ. This car was a very early car used as a development car for Grp A 635s, driven in the ETCC by Kelleners & Grano, later a Sytner car. It came to NZ & was driven by Graeme Crosbie (ex motorcycle racer).
Chassis # E24 RA 1/22 is also in NZ. This is currently owned by Dougal McGibben. This is the car that Sytner brought here to race in the original Wellington Street Race & is currently in the Johnstone BMW colours from that race & is mentioned in this thread. I understand this car was originally owned by BMW France before Sytner bought it.
I worked on Kent Baigent's 635 in that era (E24 RA2/35) & confirm that car was totally destroyed in a crash in Manfield in Oct 1985.
Jim Boult races a JPS 635 csi - this car was a JPS Grp C car, converted to Grp A & raced at Bathurst 1984 by Denny Hulme & Prince Leopold von Bayern. There is another JPS 635 csi restored & owned by Allan Drinkrow - this is Neville Crichton's old car

Once again any information or photos would be gratefully received.

David Towe · 11 Feb 2007, 10:54 (Ref:1838540)

A better response than I had hoped for, thanks Gerry.

KA · 13 Feb 2007, 00:09 (Ref:1839885)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerard Hodges

Hi KA,
My name is Gerry Hodges & I currently own Chassis # E24 RA2/46. It is the car that is for sale......Once again any information or photos would be gratefully received.

Hi Gerry- that's brilliant, thanks for posting the details of your car- and the info on other 635s in NZ is a real bonus. So, just to clarify, the car pictured at thr Skope Classic event a couple of posts back is Dougal McGibben's ex-Sytner RA1/22? I think Dougal may have posted on here a while ago, looking for info on the history of his car.

Earlier in this thread, I remember we were puzzling over how many 635s Sytner was involved with, and I think you might just have provided an answer to some of the questions we had.

Sadly, I don't have any information on your car's history in the UK- some of the others who've posted on the thread might be able to help though.

I don't suppose either you or David know the chassis numbers of the two ex-JPS cars you mentioned, by any chance?. As I recall, David posted a while ago that the one he owned was RA2/44.

racer69 · 13 Feb 2007, 01:41 (Ref:1839914)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerard Hodges

Jim Boult races a JPS 635 csi - this car was a JPS Grp C car, converted to Grp A & raced at Bathurst 1984 by Denny Hulme & Prince Leopold von Bayern.

The car raced at Bathurst in 1984 by Hulme and von Bayern wasn't a converted Group C car, it was a newly built car. Jim Richards & Tony Longhurst were still driving the Group C car in this race.

The Group C car was converted to Group A specs for 1985, and was raced by Neville Crichton in the early rounds of the 1985 ATCC (whilst his car was shipped from NZ to Australia). The car was sold later in the year to Jim Keogh, who campaigned it in late 1985 and 1986.

Gerard Hodges · 13 Feb 2007, 03:23 (Ref:1839939)

Hi KA,
Yes, I can confirm that Dougal McGibben's car is definitely chassis # 22. I was at the Skope mtg & know Dougal well & have seen his car on many occasions.
Racer 69 says that Jim Boult's car was not the Hulme/Von Bayern car from Bathurst '84. On reflection, he is probably right. I know Jim as well & he told me the history of his car. It definitely was a Grp C car converted to Grp A because it has the old style dashboard (pre '83) running standard 635 instrumentation, an after market rev counter in the corner of the dash & auxillary gauges mounted on top of the dash above the heater controls. When Jim restored it he has left the patch where the "hole" was cut in the roof for the Channel 7 periscope TV camera to be fitted.
There is another JPS Grp A 635 that belongs to Graham Dodd, Christchurch, NZ. I understand that this car was the last of the JPS 6s & after running in JPS colours it was campaigned by Archibalds Motorsport & driven by Trevor Crowe with great success. Graham never brings the car out to play as it still has the alloy cage which we are not allowed to run here in NZ.
As an aside, JPS also had a number of promotional 635s that were painted in the Black & Gold JPS colour scheme, complete with badges & signwriting. These cars were road registered, complete with leather trim, 5 speed gearboxes etc. The interesting part is they ran the RA2 chassis numbers. I think they were 60s numbers. I have a friend who owns one & I'm sure his is RA2/66.
The other car I spoke about - the ex Eggenburger car, chassis # RA2/001, was originally LHD, somewhere it was converted to RHD. The car underbody, engine bay etc is silver. The restorers are converting it back to the original LHD Eggenburger spec & colour scheme. I wonder if this was one of the BMW GB cars run in Silver & Black from memory?
Hope this helps. I would still love any info on my car and my car is still for sale. Check it out at racecarsdirect.com

Adrian B · 13 Feb 2007, 05:09 (Ref:1839971)

RA2-44 ,which was previously owned by David Towe, and now by me was never a Group C car. I think you will find this is the car Hulme/Von Bayern drove in 1984, and that Jim Richards used in 1985 as No.62. Jim R has confirmed this to David. The car is being restored and hopefully will see the track towards the end of the year.

Adrian B · 13 Feb 2007, 05:17 (Ref:1839973)

Hi Gerard, I am curious about Graham Dodd's car having an alloy cage, as I thought all the JPS cars had steel cages, built by JPS. Whereas alot of the european cars ( ie Schnitzer, Eggenberger) had alloy cages made by a company I think called Rudi.

KA · 13 Feb 2007, 07:39 (Ref:1840126)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerard Hodges

Hi KA,
Yes, I can confirm that Dougal McGibben's car is definitely chassis # 22. I was at the Skope mtg & know Dougal well & have seen his car on many occasions.

Thanks- wasn't sure I'd read that correctly the first time

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerard Hodges

As an aside, JPS also had a number of promotional 635s that were painted in the Black & Gold JPS colour scheme, complete with badges & signwriting. These cars were road registered, complete with leather trim, 5 speed gearboxes etc. The interesting part is they ran the RA2 chassis numbers. I think they were 60s numbers. I have a friend who owns one & I'm sure his is RA2/66.

That is interesting- suggests they may have been built up from proper BMW Motorsport shells rather than cars off the production line...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerard Hodges

The other car I spoke about - the ex Eggenburger car, chassis # RA2/001, was originally LHD, somewhere it was converted to RHD. The car underbody, engine bay etc is silver. The restorers are converting it back to the original LHD Eggenburger spec & colour scheme. I wonder if this was one of the BMW GB cars run in Silver & Black from memory?

that makes sense- as far as I can tell from what's been posted on the thread, the BMW GB race cars were new to the team, but the third (spare/test) car was ex-Eggenberger- think there's a photo of it back in the thread.
Apparently all 3 cars were sold to Frank Sytner, and subsequently sold on- one of the race cars to Mike Newman in the UK who campaigned it in the BTCC from 1985-7 (I think he still has it), the other went to Australia for Charlie O'Brien for Bathurst 85, and the Eggenberger car to NZ

Gerard Hodges · 15 Feb 2007, 22:13 (Ref:1842619)

Adrian, dodds car certainly has its original alloy cage,this is the main reason he can,t bring it out.
Gerry.

Adrian B · 16 Feb 2007, 03:27 (Ref:1842784)

Gerry, yes some of the JPS cars had alloy cages. I stand corrected. Sorry about that.

David Towe · 17 Feb 2007, 08:52 (Ref:1843576)

I thought that they all had alloy cages when first built as that was obviously lighter and within the rules of the day. My old white JPS 323 of Longhurst then Bolwell fame had an alloy cage, the 635 I had also had an alloy cage originally, but was changed after a big one some years back.

I've seen the pics of the now Adrian B ex me, ex Richards 635 undergoing restoration and will surely want it back when it's finished, it is an extensive rebuild to say the least, one I would have liked to be able to do but couldn't afford it.

Are you coming to Philip Island in March Adrian?

Adrian B · 23 Feb 2007, 03:48 (Ref:1849604)

David, cant make PI this year. Too busy, 635 progressing slowly, lots of bodywork, will email you some pics just to scare you. Good luck at PI.

vap · 26 Feb 2007, 19:51 (Ref:1852243)

please can anyone help me ,where can i find the chassis nr on a bmw group a car is it stamp in some where or just an id plaat on the right shock tower in the engine coñpartment john

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