Should Qualifying mean more?

[Ubique]

OK so first of all I'm not trying to take anything away from Quick Nick and his fantastic drive from the back today but what do we all think about the fact that teams are taking it easy in Quali to save tyres for the race?

The situation with Heidfeld was pretty unusual, it's not like he chose not to qualify but by not taking part in Quali he gained a huge advantage in tyres. Imho any car that doesn't take part in Quali should start the race with a ten second penalty (i.e be held in the pits for 10 secs after the start not just 10 secs added on to race time).

Even harder to police tho and imho a bigger problem is teams like Mercedes and Force India not trying to get the best grid place possible purely so that they can save tyres for the race meaning that they are essentially sandbagging.

It's a tuff one to see how we can prevent this happening again but what do you guys think? Should we see the FIA differentiating Quali tyres from Race tyres or are we happy with the games that certain teams are playing?

[p-matt]

I think that the teams need to have more tyres for qualifying and the race. If they aren't forced to give back tyres after practice, I don't think we would have seen Heidfeld charge through as he did.

[duke_toaster]

I do like the balance in that the winner is decided on Sunday not on Saturday, but I don't like tyre saving. Perhaps handing out an extra set of softs for Q2 and then another for Q3 is the solution.

The current breakdown is three sets for Friday, two sets for FP2 and the remaining six for qualifying and the race. Perhaps the system should be four for free practice (two of each), three sets for quali (one hard, two soft) and four for the race (two of each). Same number of sets, but no don't-run-to-save-the-tyres. I don't really mind allowing cars that go out in Q3 and Q2 to carry the extra tyres over though.

[beau1]

Just hand out points for the top 5 in qualifying. That will make the top 10 get out there. It will work with this ridiculous points system we already have.

[Marbot]

I'm fine with it as it is.

But maybe another set of tyres to use in Q2 and Q3 would make things better, if you then had to give those sets back that set the slowest lap time than your faster ones in each of those sessions.

I wouldn't want any more sets of new tyres than they already have for the race.

[Pingguest]

The right balance has been gone since the post-qualifying parc fermé was introduced in 2003. Since then the Formula 1 tried to re-find that balance, but without acknowledging the real cause.

The new tyre rules make it even worse: in terms of strategy the race actually starts on Saturday. Today Ferrari had a real disadvantage after having used an extra set of soft tyres during qualifying. From that very moment they had no chance of finishing on the podium.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Pingguest

The right balance has been gone since the post-qualifying parc fermé was introduced in 2003. Since then the Formula 1 tried to re-find that balance, but without acknowledging the real cause.

You do keep banging on about that.

Originally Posted by Pingguest

The new tyre rules make it even worse: in terms of strategy the race actually starts on Saturday. Today Ferrari had a real disadvantage after having used an extra set of soft tyres during qualifying. From that very moment they had no chance of finishing on the podium.

Ferrari were just plain slow. They didn't even have to use another set of soft tyres in qualifying. Bad management on their part for actually thinking that Heidfeld would start Q1.

Monaco will no doubt see another qualifying strategy. It may be better there to sacrifice all of your super-soft tyres just to get pole.

[JeremySmith]

The super-soft tyres at Monaco will be interesting because there are no run off areas so the rubber will just bounce back onto the track..

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

The super-soft tyres at Monaco will be interesting because there are no run off areas so the rubber will just bounce back onto the track..

Indeed. Although it's never happened there before, has it.

[fourWheelDrift]

The way to make qualifying mean more is to change the rules so that in race after race the cars finish the race pretty much in grid order. Races that are exciting and unpredictable are bound to mean qualifying is less important, some people are never happy.

[Ubique]

Originally Posted by fourWheelDrift

The way to make qualifying mean more is to change the rules so that in race after race the cars finish the race pretty much in grid order. Races that are exciting and unpredictable are bound to mean qualifying is less important, some people are never happy.

FWD you don't seem to be getting the point. No-one wants a return to a succession of high speed parade laps but Imho there needs to be some sort of incentive for the teams to actually go for it in qualifying rather than saving tyres. Now maybe that could be an extra set of tyres for teams making quali 3, points for the top 5 in quali or if the stewards think you've been saving a set for the race you lose a set.

[TrapezeArtist]

Should qualifying mean more? No.

The object of the exercise is to be the first car to finish the race distance on Sunday. Being on the front of the grid is a great help to achieving that objective, but there are many other factors in play. In recent years qualifying position has assumed too high a level of importance, but this year it has slipped back to a more reasonable level.

Things change. Deal with it.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by fourWheelDrift

The way to make qualifying mean more is to change the rules so that in race after race the cars finish the race pretty much in grid order. Races that are exciting and unpredictable are bound to mean qualifying is less important, some people are never happy.

I am with you here a 100%.

The rules are fine the way they are, and present the teams with a conundrum; qualify the fastest or save tyres and race the fastest.
Passing is a lot more possible, and the racing is hugely improved. Great stuff. Please god - no more parades!
All that quali is, is a semi fair way of determining a grid order for the RACE!

[Knowlesy]

Qualifying used to be an intense, balls to the wall battle. In many ways, it was the ultimate spectacle.

It should be as it was. But it will never be.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Qualifying used to be an intense, balls to the wall battle. In many ways, it was the ultimate spectacle.

It should be as it was. But it will never be.

It was the whole weekend for a while until the advent of pirellis and DRS.
Followed by a long and boring parade.
Much rather watch the current format.

[Knowlesy]

Good for you.

I hate it.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Good for you.

I hate it.

Don't get me started you know how I feel. (Elephants et al)

The present format however is MUCH better than what it was!

[Pingguest]

Originally Posted by Marbot

You do keep banging on about that.

And quite justifiably. The post-qualifying parc fermé was introduced to force teams to use the very same specifications for both qualifying and race, the exact configurations included. This legislation was introduced to 'spice-up' the racing and reduce costs. From the very beginning it became clear that it didn't improve the show - quite on the contrary - and its doubtful whether changing the car set-up would increase costs. One could have argued that mandating teams to use the same specifications indeed saved money - and made teams to spend it on something else -, until Red Bull proved otherwise. Red Bull and thereafter the others spend a lot of money on the EBD, partially because it requires different settings for qualifying and race.

[wnut]

"One could have argued that mandating teams to use the same specifications indeed saved money - and made teams to spend it on something else -, until Red Bull proved otherwise. Red Bull and thereafter the others spend a lot of money on the EBD, partially because it requires different settings for qualifying and race." Pingguest above.

Yup, amazing what you can do at the flick of a switch.

Starting with the fuel load you qualified on would have reduced the advantage of EBD, but then lead to pit passing again.
I think credit should be given where it is due, EBD (Exhaust Blown Diffusers) are a really clever innovation and should be allowed to stand till the end of the year.

[Pingguest]

Originally Posted by wnut

"One could have argued that mandating teams to use the same specifications indeed saved money - and made teams to spend it on something else -, until Red Bull proved otherwise. Red Bull and thereafter the others spend a lot of money on the EBD, partially because it requires different settings for qualifying and race." Pingguest above.

Yup, amazing what you can do at the flick of a switch.

Starting with the fuel load you qualified on would have reduced the advantage of EBD, but then lead to pit passing again.
I think credit should be given where it is due, EBD (Exhaust Blown Diffusers) are a really clever innovation and should be allowed to stand till the end of the year.

As the EBD goes against the spirit of art. 3.15 of the Technical Regulations - which prohibits movable bodywork - the FIA is right to ban this technology. However, as teams erred about the legality and therefore designed their car around this technology, fairness - one of the main objectives of the sport's regulations - demanded this technology to be allowed or tolerated until the end of the season.

Any way, the post-qualifying parc fermé was introduced to force teams using the same specifications for both qualifying and race. It was thought to be too expensive if teams used different specifications, although such was perfectly normal since the mid-1980s. In fact, before 1993 even qualifying tyres were used. The main reason why teams used different specifications was because overtaking became increasingly difficult and thus a proper qualifying became equally more important. Then an interesting question rises, whether the post-qualifying parc fermé would had been necessary, if the FIA hadn't failed to address the lack of overtaking.

[JamesH]

Originally Posted by Pingguest

As the EBD goes against the spirit of art. 3.15 of the Technical Regulations - which prohibits movable bodywork - the FIA is right to ban this technology. However, as teams erred about the legality and therefore designed their car around this technology, fairness - one of the main objectives of the sport's regulations - demanded this technology to be allowed or tolerated until the end of the season.

Moveable bodywork? What moveable bodywork?

And there is that word again - 'spirit' of the regulations. That word has no right to be used with regard to regulations. You either confirm to the regs or you don't. There is no spirit involved. Using it implies some sort of personal assessment of this ethereal 'spirit', and everyone is different.

[JamesH]

As someone else said elsewhere, qualifying is just a mechanism for deciding how to start the race, because you cannot start all the cars at the same point. In other sports everyone starts at the same point/time (e.g. motorcross, sailing, athletics etc). That's not possible on a race track (without some alterations to the circuit....)

So, really its just a cheap way of getting some sort of order at the start of the race. After all, the RACE is the important bit, or should be, and this season, it is. Previous seasons qualifying was much TOO important, to the extend that you could almost forget the race the next day (esp. Spain, Monaco etc). This years, the race is the most important bit, although qualifying still pays a major part. And that is better.

[Knowlesy]

The most important thing this year is staying within a second of the car in front so that he can't use his DRS and you can. But remember, don't go pressing that button in any area other than the Official Designated Playtime Straight!

Racing at its pure, brilliant best.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

The most important thing this year is staying within a second of the car in front so that he can't use his DRS and you can. But remember, don't go pressing that button in any area other than the Official Designated Playtime Straight!

Racing at its pure, brilliant best.

You should be made to watch re-runs of all the races where your favourite car or driver got held up by a car or driver that they were quicker than, but never stood a snowball in hells chance of getting passed.

I'm sure that many Alonso fans out there know exactly what I mean.

[Knowlesy]

Imola 2005 and 2006 were quality races.

With DRS they would have been all kinds of arse.

We haven't just lost the art of overtaking but defence too. And qualifying!