Massa (BRA) future?? - Page 5

Lennon · 12 Jun 2011, 05:38 (Ref:2896554)

Quote:

Alonso's speed, talent and ability naturally lend the team to him. I have seen nothing, in the 25 or so races that Alonso and Massa have been team mates that tells me that Felipe is going to get the job done ahead of Fernando. That is the reason that Alonso has a contract until 2016 and there is talk that Massa may lose his seat. (and not the other way around).

Yeah... and despite the speed, talent and ability he still needs the team working to him alone. Massa didn't took the 2008 champ because Ferrari made a lot of mistakes, specially at the pits. I think Massa should go other team, it's too difficult to work with Celine Alonso.

Mr V · 12 Jun 2011, 09:24 (Ref:2896750)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lennon

Yeah... and despite the speed, talent and ability he still needs the team working to him alone. Massa didn't took the 2008 champ because Ferrari made a lot of mistakes, specially at the pits. I think Massa should go other team, it's too difficult to work with Celine Alonso.

Yawn.

3 things.

1) Why the need for calling Alonso names?

2) Why would Massa willing want to leave Ferrari? If he does, there is only one way he can go and that's backwards and any car he'd likely end up in, he won't have a chance of winning.

3) Whilst Alonso is, without doubt team leader, there is nothing to suggest that Ferrari are working for him alone, what would be the point of that? And if Ferrari were solely concentrating on him then how come that Massa got so close in quali?

Lennon · 12 Jun 2011, 13:06 (Ref:2897049)

1) Why the need for calling Alonso names?

Alonso is like those divas, he likes to call attention and make a big deal of everything. That's the way he is. He left maclaren after a single year 'cause he noticed that Ron wouldn't do what he wanted to (against Lewis). The man even stopped the car at the pits not allowing Lewis to change tires. Even his phisioterapist called the fight (that was ridiculous). Alonso is a really great driver, but that's just the way he is.

2) Why would Massa willing want to leave Ferrari? If he does, there is only one way he can go and that's backwards and any car he'd likely end up in, he won't have a chance of winning.

If Massa wants more than just drive a possibly winner car, but not having the chance for really doing it, he should quit Ferrari. Remember Barrichelo's year at Ferrari. After Austria 2002 people even asked Schumacher if he wanted be the champion for being the best driver or having a better contract. He can drive Ferrari for years just being number 2, exactly what happens with Webber now (at Red Bull), Berger (with senna, maclaren years) and much others.

3) Whilst Alonso is, without doubt team leader, there is nothing to suggest that Ferrari are working for him alone, what would be the point of that? And if Ferrari were solely concentrating on him then how come that Massa got so close in quali?

Since the car is better, both go forward. When Schumacher was first Rubens was in second place for a lot of times. EXERT: AS I WRITE, AUDI JUST WINS 24 HOURS DU MANS. Continuing... Ferrari historically does that. Even at Gilles years he had problems with Didier Pironi.

Louis Agilais · 12 Jun 2011, 15:21 (Ref:2897143)

Quote:

If Massa wants more than just drive a possibly winner car, but not having the chance for really doing it, he should quit Ferrari. Remember Barrichelo's year at Ferrari.

Despite what they say, I think they all (Berger, Barrichello, Irvine, Massa) prefer being a second driver (for Ferrari and Mclaren), specially when their teammates are names like Senna, Schumacher and Alonso (each undoubtedly the best F1 driver of his generation). Why? Because despite having to yield one or two times, effectively giving away a GP win, they know perfectly well that they have a much better chance of getting wins and performing better than the alternative: go to a lesser team. And that's the reason they've done it, that they signed 2nd driver contracts and kept them while they could. Result? 10 wins for Berger, 9 for Rubens (and a couple of Championship 2nd places) which are pretty good career results, considering the sport. Add to this a chance of a genuine Championship contending if something happens to the nr 1 driver or he's just out of form, like 1999 for Irvine.

As for Massa, he's the best nr 2 driver of them all like he proved in 2008 and also because his results (and race pace, quali, etc) show him pretty close to the mighty Fernando. And deserves his place there

Lennon · 12 Jun 2011, 23:31 (Ref:2897646)

Quote:

Despite what they say, I think they all (Berger, Barrichello, Irvine, Massa) prefer being a second driver (for Ferrari and Mclaren), specially when their teammates are names like Senna, Schumacher and Alonso (each undoubtedly the best F1 driver of his generation). Why? Because despite having to yield one or two times, effectively giving away a GP win, they know perfectly well that they have a much better chance of getting wins and performing better than the alternative: go to a lesser team. And that's the reason they've done it, that they signed 2nd driver contracts and kept them while they could. Result? 10 wins for Berger, 9 for Rubens (and a couple of Championship 2nd places) which are pretty good career results, considering the sport. Add to this a chance of a genuine Championship contending if something happens to the nr 1 driver or he's just out of form, like 1999 for Irvine.

As for Massa, he's the best nr 2 driver of them all like he proved in 2008 and also because his results (and race pace, quali, etc) show him pretty close to the mighty Fernando. And deserves his place there

I mostly agrre with u, but i still think it´s diffcult for a sportsman, where competition resides within, to give up the fight and watch the role thing "as a job". Massa indeed responded to team needs and Ferrari, not him, screwed the 2008 champ.
Alonso (Mariah, Celine or Aretha

) is the worst 1st driver of them all. Lewis and Button have a nice realtionship, and Webber and Vettel can co-exist. Alonso has that "all eyes over me" need.

Mr V · 13 Jun 2011, 10:53 (Ref:2897938)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lennon

Massa indeed responded to team needs and Ferrari, not him, screwed the 2008 champ.

I fail to see how Ferrari as a team screwed the championship for Massa, don't forget, he had it for 20 seconds until Lewis got Timo. Maybe you were watching a different season to me?

Marbot · 13 Jun 2011, 11:02 (Ref:2897942)

To be fair to Massa, Ferrari's pit crews weren't exactly a paragon of efficiency that season.

**Bononi** · 13 Jun 2011, 11:31 (Ref:2897975)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

To be fair to Massa, Ferrari's pit crews weren't exactly a paragon of efficiency that season.

Only that season ???

chillibowl · 13 Jun 2011, 14:26 (Ref:2898106)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lennon

I mostly agrre with u, but i still think it´s diffcult for a sportsman, where competition resides within, to give up the fight and watch the role thing "as a job". Massa indeed responded to team needs and Ferrari, not him, screwed the 2008 champ.
Alonso (Mariah, Celine or Aretha

) is the worst 1st driver of them all. Lewis and Button have a nice realtionship, and Webber and Vettel can co-exist. Alonso has that "all eyes over me" need.

already touched upon by Louis and i agree that the rationalization for Massa must be that he at least he gets to drive one of the top cars and he has an opportunity to change peoples mind about him and thats no small thing. in other words accepting the 2nd seat at Ferrari still leaves him with enough opportunities to fuel his competitive nature.

also i always pictured Alonso as the Diana Ross type diva!

Lennon · 13 Jun 2011, 15:31 (Ref:2898143)

Quote:

I fail to see how Ferrari as a team screwed the championship for Massa, don't forget, he had it for 20 seconds until Lewis got Timo. Maybe you were watching a different season to me?

Being fast... Cingapure 2008... guys let him out with fuel hose still on the car. And others like that happened. Ferrari, as some lad said, is not a perfect example of efficiency on the pits.

Quote:

also i always pictured Alonso as the Diana Ross type diva!

Well, finally someone understand my point, Thanks Chiillibowl. Have any of you guys read the spanish media? OMG... they are totally pro-Alonso and can create the most mirabulous things.

Marbot · 13 Jun 2011, 16:56 (Ref:2898215)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

Only that season ???

Not just that season, but notably that season in recent years.

**Born Racer** · 13 Jun 2011, 17:53 (Ref:2898257)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

To be fair to Massa, Ferrari's pit crews weren't exactly a paragon of efficiency that season.

Was that deliberate Ronspeak?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr V

I fail to see how Ferrari as a team screwed the championship for Massa, don't forget, he had it for 20 seconds until Lewis got Timo.

[PEDANT]He never really had it though, did he? The race wasn't over, the fat lady hadn't sung and the mechanic had yet to headbutt the monitor/[/PEDANT]

Marbot · 13 Jun 2011, 18:28 (Ref:2898285)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Born Racer

Was that deliberate Ronspeak?

No. 'Deliberate' Ronspeak is something along the lines of: "We weren't racing Kimi, we were basically racing Fernando."

**Born Racer** · 13 Jun 2011, 18:30 (Ref:2898287)

I think that was more a Freudian slip based on Ron's personal preferences at that point of the season.

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