[Multi 21] Red Bull-Honda

[F1Guy]

Interesting that Honda have apparently said Toro Rosso will remain the factory works team, while Red Bull is a customer.

[GTRMagic]

Potsie’s view...

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

Interesting that Honda have apparently said Toro Rosso will remain the factory works team, while Red Bull is a customer.

Who had said that? Everything I've read in interviews with all parties made it closer to the Red Bull group is their customer and no one is the 'factory' team. Especially as Honda believes and seems to fully back everyone gets the same spec all the time rules. How much Ferrari and MB abide that particular rule is debatable and hotly debated, but it seems like Honda are on board.

[chunterer]

Well Red Bull mist have been planning this for some time, why else would they STR become more 'aligned' with mother in terms of next years design....

Clearly they want to ensure they don't get beaten by the junior team with one years more experience of installations etc etc!!

[TF110]

I thought it was obvious Toro Rosso was a Honda test-bed for the 'mother' team Red Bull. They keep track of the progress Honda makes vs their own Renault unit and make a decision. Seems they like what they see. Toro Rosso is nowhere close to the level Red Bull is so it just seems like they know how much better they'd be with the same engine is not a loss compared to what they have now and what they see in store.

[Richard C]

Due to both an under performing engine and chassis during the McLaren/Honda period. It will be interesting to see what the 2019 version of this Honda power unit will do in a top chassis with experienced drivers. Very much looking forward to 2019.

Richard

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Due to both an under performing engine and chassis during the McLaren/Honda period. It will be interesting to see what the 2019 version of this Honda power unit will do in a top chassis with experienced drivers. Very much looking forward to 2019.

Richard

And what will Zak and company have to say about how Honda must have used McLaren to improve the engine design as their chassis is the bestest so there's no way Red Bull is that much faster now

[Razor]

Interesting to see Red Bull/Toro Rosso have taken a lot from McLaren over the last couple of years. Mobil and TAG Heuer sponsorship and now Honda

[F1Guy]

Hey Red Bull, two Honda engine failures in two races.

Was that a "technical" based decision to sign with Honda you say?

[F1Guy]

Interesting. Red Bull have not officially signed a contact with Honda. According to Masashi Yamamoto (General Manager, Honda Motor Sport Division), Red Bull and Honda have only verbally agreed to the supply of engines, but no contract has been signed as yet.


Could we see another Sauber/Honda type situation?

[broadrun96]

Why the hatred on Honda? Did someone there fire you? Seems like grownups take their time to sign contracts and work out the language, they don't just announce something and then immediately sign on the line. There's likely bits and specifics to work out after the verbal agreement had been entered in to. Then the lawyers get to meet and make sure all the language meets both parties' needs and possibly work on the public comments section knowing Horner and company's willingness to talk.

[GingerPixel]

So Honda test all the new bits in a Torro Rosso, and then send the ones that don't implode/explode/overheat to Red Bull?

[Aysedasi]

Makes perfect sense......

[GT6]

Agreed, was pretty obvious Red bull would switch to honda

[bjohnsonsmith]

STR have become a test mule.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

STR have become a test mule.

They've been a test mule for drivers for years - so why not the engines as well?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

They've been a test mule for drivers for years - so why not the engines as well?

Makes a lot of sense.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Razor

Interesting to see Red Bull/Toro Rosso have taken a lot from McLaren over the last couple of years. Mobil and TAG Heuer sponsorship and now Honda

that is an interesting thought!

plus add Newey (and Coulthard from several years back on that.

quite havent thought of it that way before.

must admit to being a bit down about the fates of Williams and Mclaren these days but after reading your post i immediately had a mental image of a vulture picking clean the carcuss of a once great team.

i guess this is very much F1 but still sad to think that is Mclaren's turn to be picked clean.

[Richard C]

Small improvements planned for 2018, but the focus is on 2019...

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/h...19-engine.html

Richard

[Mekola]

Ferdinand Piech buying Honda... What a novelty...

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Mekola

Ferdinand Piech buying Honda... What a novelty...

It is my understanding that Ferdinand Piech remains pretty much out of the picture with respect to being in the driving seat at VAG after his resignation three years ago. This is probably reinforced by the recent arrest of Audi CEO Rupert Stadler who was a Piech protege. Not to mention that Piech is 81 and probably not working on a comeback.

So while Honda is still a small fish in a big pond (for example they are dwarfed by country rival Toyota) and a potential acquisition target, I don’t see them being purchased by VAG anytime soon. VAG has other problems to deal with. And speaking of Honda ownership, actually I have no idea of what the current ownership of Honda looks like other than knowing they are independent of other manufacturers.

Richard

[F1Guy]

Masashi Yamamoto: “Let’s say that Mercedes and Ferrari are very close but Mercedes is maybe a little bit ahead.

“Then Renault and Honda are very, very close, but let’s say in that category we would place ourselves in the fourth position.”



So Honda have the fourth best engine in F1, which has four engine manufacturers.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

Masashi Yamamoto: “Let’s say that Mercedes and Ferrari are very close but Mercedes is maybe a little bit ahead.

“Then Renault and Honda are very, very close, but let’s say in that category we would place ourselves in the fourth position.”



So Honda have the fourth best engine in F1, which has four engine manufacturers.

Are you saying that you agree with Yamamoto's assessment? Or that you are confused by it? I am not sure what you are indicating with the emoticon choice here?

If there are 4 engine manufacturers in F1, then one of them has to be fourth in any criteria. The question is, under what critieria is Yamamoto basing his assessment - 4th in terms of power, reliability, cost, or some other metric? You have added the qualifier 'best' to Yamomoto's statement without giving context.

It has been quite clear from your previous posts that you do not feel Honda are delivering a good product - if Honda had made claims to the contrary you would be berating them here also.

Regardless of how Honda describe their engine, I'm sure you would find some way to criticise their comments.....

[E.B]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

Masashi Yamamoto: “Let’s say that Mercedes and Ferrari are very close but Mercedes is maybe a little bit ahead.

“Then Renault and Honda are very, very close, but let’s say in that category we would place ourselves in the fourth position.”



So Honda have the fourth best engine in F1, which has four engine manufacturers.

A refreshing change to have a manufacturer admit they still have room for improvement in these McLaren-esque days of statements such as "we have the best chassis" (when we find our 2018 spec car) ...... when the car is such a feral dog it should be chained to the fence.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by E.B

A refreshing change to have a manufacturer admit they still have room for improvement

I think Yamamoto's statement is following this advice: