[Official] Russian Grand Prix 2018: Grand Prix Weekend Thread

[justracing]

Originally Posted by Adam43

I am a bit of a purist and I love motor racing in all sorts of formats and I accept team orders

Did I say that? No definitely not.

[Adam43]

I said it, as a purist.

[djinvicta]

I was just SO surprised Perez let Ocon back through! Thought it might have been the best bit!

[djinvicta]

Originally Posted by Adam43

I am a bit of a purist and I love motor racing in all sorts of formats and I accept team orders

I understand the posts.. It's money at the end of the day..

[EffectiveSprinkles]

Originally Posted by justracing

I am a bit of a purist and I love motor racing in all sorts of so formats and I detest these team order; F1 is a complete sham in this respect. Shameful decision to switch Bottas and even worse was the non penalty given to Vettell for the double move in front of Hamilton, Vettell clearly made 2 moves into the braking area and yet the stewards deemed that it was legal

Dear lord
It was a farce there was even an investigation at all.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by djinvicta

I understand the posts.. It's money at the end of the day..

It’s the point of the game. The money makes it harder to treat it as only a game. I see what you are saying.

They can do as they wish. When someone does behave in a sporting manner it is all the more worthy of appreciation.

[djinvicta]

Bit of pants really. After turn 1, we all knew the outcome. I wanted Bottas and Perez to throw toys our of prams.. but really.. it was never going to happen. Even Coulthard admitted he only moved over for Mika if he got his "win" money bonus. Says it all really.. not "proper" racing..

[P38 in workshop]

I wonder what this might do for the new partner in the betting business.Might be enough to make them question whether the relationship is worth anything at all.


I couldn't help seeing Bernie once again acting as the greeter to the VIP delegation,about the only time we see him these days.Its a strange business that makes no effort to use the abilities of such a man considering what he did to establish and promote the championship.

[djinvicta]

Originally Posted by Adam43

It’s the point of the game. The money makes it harder to treat it as only a game. I see what you are saying.

They can do as they wish. When someone does behave in a sporting manner it is all the more worthy of appreciation.

Thanks for the message.. I'm a bit like Perez.. I'm confused how to answer.. Old man syndrome.. hope it got through Adam...

[djinvicta]

Yeah.. wow.. Bernie.. white beard and sunglasses with Putin. He's got a new job...

[P38 in workshop]

It makes me wonder whether Vlad's mate Donald will get the same reception in Austin.

[S griffin]

I knew there would be people out there commenting as if Merc are the only team ever to impose team orders. Maybe it was a but awkward, but I’m sure they’ll sort any difficulties out

Vettel was on the edge with those two changing of lines. And it seems Magnussen was up to his old tricks again

Good recovery by both RBRs, especially as Danny was hobbled at the first part of the race with a damaged front wing

[gert]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I knew there would be people out there commenting as if Merc are the only team ever to impose team orders.

I don't see that anywhere ?

Ferrari did it before, RBR did it before. Others did it before them.
Others got criticized for it. Mercedes deserved to be as heavily criticized as the others.

They are not worse than any of the others, but not better either. Just as bad (or good, depending on how you look at it)

Originally Posted by Adam43

Hamilton didn’t want team orders https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13...et-him-through

IMO, that feels just like a (failed) attempt at damage limitation / image protection.
If he didn't want it, he could have given it back to Bottas. He didn't.

Or he could have proposed to his team to give it back. I didn't hear that get broadcast, so either he didn't propose it or the directors chose not to broadcast his conversation. The former seems more likely I'd think.

[Skam85]

At least F1 is unique in being pretty much the only sport that legalises match fixing.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by P38 in workshop

It makes me wonder whether Vlad's mate Donald will get the same reception in Austin.

He won't be there….

[jimclark]

Originally Posted by gert

IMO, that feels just like a (failed) attempt at damage limitation / image protection.
If he didn't want it, he could have given it back to Bottas. He didn't.

Or he could have proposed to his team to give it back.

During my working life, 'did many things I didn't prefer to do. 'Not my choice when working for the decision makers.

Originally Posted by Skam85

At least F1 is unique in being pretty much the only sport that legalises match fixing.

What match fixing is that? Remember, there are ten teams, not just two drivers, in the championships.

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

He won't be there….

'Didn't know he is supposed to be...
('Didn't come to our Halloween party last year either. Was he supposed to?)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

In each of the above situations, there's a major difference 'twixt what is emotionally good, and, what is rational, in reality.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by djinvicta

Even Coulthard admitted he only moved over for Mika if he got his "win" money bonus. Says it all really.. not "proper" racing..

Exactly- it’s F1, not “proper” racing! Thought We’d be used to that by now, team orders have been going on long enough, from the early days when (as mentioned several posts back) drivers came in on request and gave their healthy car to a team mate....

[Peter Mallett]

It doesn't make it any better and also in those days it was a drivers championship only. I agree team orders are fine but there has to be some context to them. Lewis was still in control of the championship even if he finished second. But as I said above I didn't watch it because I knew the outcome already.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Indeed if there was an imperative such as only two races to go an the points were owe than if course swap the drivers. But as I understand it Lewis had a big enough lead to make this facile.

At the moment, we are assuming that Lewis has a big enough lead to make it facile, but if Vettel puts a solid run of results together, and closes the gap to less than 10 points for instance, it is exactly the right thing to do.
A point in the first race of the season carries the same value (in terms of championship and prize money) as a point the last race. The only time Lewis will have a big enough lead is when the title is decided.
If team orders are acceptable at any point in the season, they should be acceptable through the whole season.

Originally Posted by Skam85

At least F1 is unique in being pretty much the only sport that legalises match fixing.

Except it is not. It was mentioned in commentary of the BTCC this weekend how Turkington might benefit from being in a team of cars that can help his title bid - is that not 'fixing'?

How about when a cricket team declares to try and get a result - 'fixing'?

In football, when the team decides who will take a penalty, and affects the betting on scorers - 'fixing'?

In a lot of sports, teams can do things within the rules to achieve the result they desire from a given situation, it is up to the competition to change that. In this case, the onus was on Ferrari to prevent Mercedes from being able to control who won the race - but they failed.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

At the moment, we are assuming that Lewis has a big enough lead to make it facile, but if Vettel puts a solid run of results together, and closes the gap to less than 10 points for instance, it is exactly the right thing to do.
A point in the first race of the season carries the same value (in terms of championship and prize money) as a point the last race. The only time Lewis will have a big enough lead is when the title is decided.
If team orders are acceptable at any point in the season, they should be acceptable through the whole season.

Yes, I understand all of that but it doesn't make the event any more palatable. As I said above, I knew what the result would be (failing accidents or breakdowns) so I didn't bother watching. That is why I find this particular circumstance distasteful. There is currently no need right now, especially with the reliability of the power units, to protect Lewis' lead in this way.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I knew there would be people out there commenting as if Merc are the only team ever to impose team orders. Maybe it was a but awkward, but I’m sure they’ll sort any difficulties out

Vettel was on the edge with those two changing of lines. And it seems Magnussen was up to his old tricks again

Good recovery by both RBRs, especially as Danny was hobbled at the first part of the race with a damaged front wing

The main point is that Mercedes are the only team deceitful enough to state that they allow their drivers to race!

[Compromised]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Except it is not. It was mentioned in commentary of the BTCC this weekend how Turkington might benefit from being in a team of cars that can help his title bid - is that not 'fixing'?

How about when a cricket team declares to try and get a result - 'fixing'?

In football, when the team decides who will take a penalty, and affects the betting on scorers - 'fixing'?

In a lot of sports, teams can do things within the rules to achieve the result they desire from a given situation, it is up to the competition to change that. In this case, the onus was on Ferrari to prevent Mercedes from being able to control who won the race - but they failed.

So being a team sport ala football why is there a Drivers Championship? Awarded to one (ie.singular) driver?

[wolfhound]

Look at it another way Mercedes could have missed out on a drivers 1-2 in the drivers championship. Bottas could miss out by a handful of points. If Bottas won he would have been about the same numbers of points behind Vettel as Vettel would be behind Hamilton.

[jimclark]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

It doesn't make it any better and also in those days it was a drivers championship only. I agree team orders are fine but there has to be some context to them. Lewis was still in control of the championship even if he finished second. But as I said above I didn't watch it because I knew the outcome already.

61 years ago? That's was F1's infancy. 'Been dual championships ever since.

Context? You didn't watch which is fine...'understood why you didn't know. Lewis' left rear had blistered around the center (one could see them) so there was context.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Compromised

So being a team sport ala football why is there a Drivers Championship? Awarded to one (ie.singular) driver?

Probably for the same reason most motorsports issue a driver and team prize.

Football does also award prizes to individuals in a team sport.




The main difference I see here though is that Formula One chooses to highlight the driver's result more than the team's result. But they also award a team's prize on every podium - and the finances are distributed based on the team's position, not the drivers'

The public face of F1 is that it is all about the drivers - they are the household names. But the private side is that everything revolves around the collective team performance.