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Old 20 Feb 2010, 15:03 (Ref:2637106)   #46
duke_toaster
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I wouldn't be surprised if they were all combined.
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Old 20 Feb 2010, 15:14 (Ref:2637112)   #47
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Originally Posted by stedevil View Post
PS The really funny thing is that one can participate in both WTCC and ETCC without race clashes. :P
Not really surprising. Eurosport have TV rights to both series so makes no sense to have clashing events.

It's all very well sitting there and complaining about clashing events but how about I set you a challenge. Find 4 weekends that don't have any clashes with BTCC, DTC, STCC, NezCup, Procar or WTCC, then find 4 venues available on those dates.
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Old 20 Feb 2010, 15:30 (Ref:2637118)   #48
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Originally Posted by duke_toaster View Post
I wouldn't be surprised if they were all combined.
Actually, i reckon that would be quite good, you know, like a fford festival, just in touring cars. But can oschersleben take that many cars in 1 race?
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Old 20 Feb 2010, 15:45 (Ref:2637125)   #49
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My suspicion is the entrants confirmed are probably for the most part, Procar.

Maybe there were few teams (if any) from the clashing formulae that were going to compete.
Eg Thompson and his team, current ETCC champion, since long declared he/they would do ETCC, DTC and NezCup. That's made impossible now. There has also been rumors of other DTC/STCC/NezCup teams wanting to participate.

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Originally Posted by redshoes View Post
It's all very well sitting there and complaining about clashing events but how about I set you a challenge. Find 4 weekends that don't have any clashes with BTCC, DTC, STCC, NezCup, Procar or WTCC, then find 4 venues available on those dates.
Super easy, set the dates 8+ months before season starts then STICK TO THEM. Then it's the lower series that need to make their next years schedule to avoid clashes. Changing dates, just 1-2mo before all the series starts, leaves absolutely no wiggling room for anybody else to adapt.
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Old 20 Feb 2010, 15:57 (Ref:2637130)   #50
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Originally Posted by stedevil View Post
Super easy, set the dates 8+ months before season starts then STICK TO THEM. Then it's the lower series that need to make their next years schedule to avoid clashes.
And you think that BTCC will take any notice of what ETCC/WTCC dates have already been scheduled. All they care about is what live TV commitments cause a problem so schedule dates to avoid F1, Tour de France and World Cup. They've happily scheduled clashing meetings when WTCC has been in the UK in the past.

I expect that the other 'lower' series will feel much the same.

BTW, I noticed you've actually avoided answering the challenge.
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Old 20 Feb 2010, 16:23 (Ref:2637144)   #51
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Originally Posted by redshoes View Post
And you think that BTCC will take any notice of what ETCC/WTCC dates have already been scheduled. All they care about is what live TV commitments cause a problem so schedule dates to avoid F1, Tour de France and World Cup. They've happily scheduled clashing meetings when WTCC has been in the UK in the past.

I expect that the other 'lower' series will feel much the same.
STCC run on Saturdays, just to sidestep potential F1 clashes. TDF they for sure don't care about. And World Cup of what?

But what STCC cannot do, is wait to set their dates until March because some crazy ETCC people want to move things around to the vary last second.

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BTW, I noticed you've actually avoided answering the challenge.
No I didnt, you got a very detailed answer to your question. Pick any 4 weekends by random in 2011 if you must get specific dates to understand my point.
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Old 20 Feb 2010, 16:32 (Ref:2637148)   #52
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No I didnt, you got a very detailed answer to your question. Pick any 4 weekends by random in 2011 if you must get specific dates to understand my point.
You actually gave a detailed answer to why you didn't think it was necessary to answer his question, which is slightly different

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Originally Posted by stedevil
Super easy, set the dates 8+ months before season starts then STICK TO THEM. Then it's the lower series that need to make their next years schedule to avoid clashes.
Most national series won't really consider themselves lower series to the ETCC, they probably will have a losing debate with the WTCC...but certainly not the ETCC. All championships will pay no mind to the ETCC calendar, they have enough problems.

The BTCC calendar, as redshoes implied, is already completely built around avoiding F1, British Football and other major sporting events that will detract from it's TV coverage...they just wouldn't add the headache of the ETCC schedule as well.
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Old 20 Feb 2010, 16:43 (Ref:2637154)   #53
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Football World Cup. Coverage is shared by ITV and BBC. Even if that day's game is shown on BBC there's little point trying to show BTCC coverage on ITV as most of your target audience will be watching the footie.

STCC/BTCC/etc don't have to wait until ETCC dates are set, it should be the other way around. I doubt there's a single team who have ETCC as their primary goal, all will be looking at their own national series first and fitting in ETCC if/when possible. Despite your earlier comment none of the big national series should be considered 'lower' that the ETCC, it's the other way around. STCC for example does not need schedule around ETCC in the hope of picking up a few extra entries, however the reverse is true of the ETCC.

So given that the various national series will always do what is in their own interest and set their dates first regardless of what anyone else is doing, the ETCC has no option but to try to schedule around everyone else, hence my original question. Pick 4 dates at random for 2011 if you want but don't expect anyone else to take any notice.
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Old 20 Feb 2010, 17:22 (Ref:2637169)   #54
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STCC/BTCC/etc are not changing their schedules for ETCC.

But ETCC did, at first at least. The first version of the ETCC calendar clashed with STCC/BTCC/DTC in two of the races.

The calendar was then changed, with no clashes.

I wonder what the reason for this change came, as it puts the whole thing back to step one. I think a lot of teams will hesitate when they from the start does not have the chance to take part in all races.

BTCC/DTC/STCC is the backbone for ETCC, so imho a change of that date should be very important. But I guess its down to the money...
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Old 20 Feb 2010, 18:00 (Ref:2637190)   #55
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What they have done makes absolutely no sense at all and they can't of tried that hard to find an alternative racetrack either.

Unless they allow 2 dropped scores from the 8 races or something then its going to put teams off doing any ETCC racing

Even if someone like Engstler decides he will do the ETCC and WTCC races that weekend, surely he'll need to take 2 cars just for him to use, due to parc fermé conditions?

I hope something changes so that it is possible for the teams to either do all 4 race weeks as intended, or they can drop scores or something, as its the most pointless possible thing they could have done.
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Old 20 Feb 2010, 21:54 (Ref:2637296)   #56
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Even if someone like Engstler decides he will do the ETCC and WTCC races that weekend, surely he'll need to take 2 cars just for him to use, due to parc fermé conditions?
.
Just for logical reasons even. If he fancies a shot at either title (lets be fair, the ETCC's more achievable for Franz even if the SR-Sport cars aren't Yokohama Trophy eligible) - he would want his only car wrecked in the wrong race.

I'm doubtful any WTCC entrants (that is cars, not drivers) are meant to race in the ETCC.
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Old 21 Feb 2010, 00:14 (Ref:2637364)   #57
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The original date was May 30, which was to be an ETCC and ADAC Procar round. But the ADAC Procar decided to go to Hockenheim instead that weekend, and then the ETCC didn't want to stay alone so they moved the race to September 5. Should we blame the ADAC then?
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Old 21 Feb 2010, 00:19 (Ref:2637367)   #58
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Originally Posted by NaBUru38 View Post
The original date was May 30, which was to be an ETCC and ADAC Procar round. But the ADAC Procar decided to go to Hockenheim instead that weekend, and then the ETCC didn't want to stay alone so they moved the race to September 5. Should we blame the ADAC then?
The Procar move was most certainly just following the ETCC, not the other way around.

The fact it was announced slightly earlier is a timing thing only...let's face it, they knew the FIA was moving the ETCC race to the same weekend as the WTCC....they just couldn't tell anyone.
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Old 21 Feb 2010, 02:58 (Ref:2637430)   #59
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STCC/BTCC/etc don't have to wait until ETCC dates are set, it should be the other way around.
It should be neither. National championships should not have to wait, ever, because ETCC calendar should already be set by the time the national events even starts work on their next year schedules. Also, the ETCC calendar should be set in cooperation with the national championships, if nothing else to work around territorial thinking and national "world championship" sentiments.

That is the only way ETCC will ever really be able to work properly, and I sure would like to see eg the top 5 teams from the top 5 championships in Europe battle it out. Wouldn't you like to see the same?

The carrot for the teams should be decent prize money, the carrot for the national championships... donno, perhaps to host an ETCC event the next year?

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the ETCC has no option but to try to schedule around everyone else
It still doesnt change the fact that it's the completely wrong approach if you ever want ETCC to actually work. And changing dates 1-2mo before the start of the event to something with massive clashes to ALL the top national series is just daft, plain and simply. That just creates animosity and irritation in exactly the places where ETCC need to not look like A-holes. And after this stunt, which teams will even bother with planning for ETCC next year when they know you can get screwed over at any time, even though you already managed to prep cars and collect sponsors/budget.
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Old 21 Feb 2010, 08:18 (Ref:2637505)   #60
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It still doesnt change the fact that it's the completely wrong approach if you ever want ETCC to actually work. And changing dates 1-2mo before the start of the event to something with massive clashes to ALL the top national series is just daft, plain and simply.
I don't think anyone's arguing against that.
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