V6 single seaters

SAMD · 2 Mar 2010, 17:10 (Ref:2643421)

I was in a guys garage yesterday. I wont mention his name, suffice to say there were lots of very nice cars in it. It was a truely fascinating, amazing place, mind boggling in fact.
Anyway, there was a big single seater with an aluminium tub which I took initially to be a F 5000 car but after a quick look at the engine I was surprised to see it was a V6. I was wondering what cars (it looked late 60s early 70s) ran a V6.
It may have been a Lola?
I didn't have time to look any closer and it is only on reflection that I have started to wonder.

morninggents · 2 Mar 2010, 19:04 (Ref:2643494)

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAMD

I was in a guys garage yesterday. I wont mention his name, suffice to say there were lots of very nice cars in it. It was a truely fascinating, amazing place, mind boggling in fact.
Anyway, there was a big single seater with an aluminium tub which I took initially to be a F 5000 car but after a quick look at the engine I was surprised to see it was a V6. I was wondering what cars (it looked late 60s early 70s) ran a V6.
It may have been a Lola?
I didn't have time to look any closer and it is only on reflection that I have started to wonder.

I seem to recall that F5000 accepted 3.4 litre V6 Cologne engines at some point.

Mike Bell · 2 Mar 2010, 19:29 (Ref:2643509)

I'm no F5000 expert but certainly the 3.4 litre V6 Ford GA or GAA depending on your persuasion was used in a few cars.

SAMD · 2 Mar 2010, 19:30 (Ref:2643510)

Quote:

Originally Posted by morninggents

I seem to recall that F5000 accepted 3.4 litre V6 Cologne engines at some point.

I don't think it was a Cologne although I could well be wrong. But I just think I would have recognised a Cologne. This engine had flat covers over the heads and a mechanical FI system as far as I remember.

I should be back again tomorrow and I will ask a bit more about it if I get the chance.

Mike Bell · 2 Mar 2010, 19:43 (Ref:2643519)

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAMD

I don't think it was a Cologne although I could well be wrong. But I just think I would have recognised a Cologne. This engine had flat covers over the heads and a mechanical FI system as far as I remember.

I should be back again tomorrow and I will ask a bit more about it if I get the chance.

The GAA wasn't a Cologne- it was fitted in the 'Cologne' Capri and was a Cosworth design on a bigger Essex block. Belt drive twin cam heads and Lucas fuel injection with trumpets in the V.

Al Weyman · 2 Mar 2010, 19:46 (Ref:2643522)

Yeah they definitely allowed the GAA V6 in, I am sure I recollect that.

morninggents · 2 Mar 2010, 20:30 (Ref:2643567)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

The GAA wasn't a Cologne- it was fitted in the 'Cologne' Capri and was a Cosworth design on a bigger Essex block. Belt drive twin cam heads and Lucas fuel injection with trumpets in the V.

Quite correct - it was the GAA. I used the term 'Cologne' as a generalisation - must remember there are too many experts here.

Mike Bell · 2 Mar 2010, 20:56 (Ref:2643581)

Quote:

Originally Posted by morninggents

Quite correct - it was the GAA. I used the term 'Cologne' as a generalisation - must remember there are too many experts here.

I would have probably have said the same, and am certainly no expert

SFurness · 2 Mar 2010, 21:09 (Ref:2643590)

Hi,

Didn't David Purley run a 3.4 V6 in F5000 under the Lec Refrigeration banner. Mid 70's ?

Steve

Alan Morgan · 2 Mar 2010, 21:44 (Ref:2643621)

And Alan Jones in a March.

A picture of the tub would probably reveal all...

PeterMorley · 3 Mar 2010, 09:16 (Ref:2643866)

In the mid 70s the pound died so American engines became much more expensive the Europeans allowed non-pushrod engines of upto 3.5 litres into F5000.
Cosworth GAs were quite successful in Marches & Chevrons.

More recently (mid 80s onwards?) the Holden/Buick V6 has been popular in Australia.
The Buick V6 was turboed and used in some mid 80s indycars as well.

Apart from the specialised Renault & Dino V6s I can't think of any other production based engines except for the Alfa one?

Dan Rear · 3 Mar 2010, 13:03 (Ref:2644021)

Only ever 4 F5000s with Essex V6s I think. The Purley Chevron B30, then 3 Marches. The Jones/RAM 75A, the Walkinshaw then Musetti 752, and the Hayje/ex-Hunt 731. I don't think the Oz or US series ever saw a V6 F5000.

Dan Rear · 3 Mar 2010, 13:03 (Ref:2644022)

And the Walkinshaw Modus, just remembered that one!

**Peter Mallett** · 3 Mar 2010, 13:05 (Ref:2644025)

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFurness

Hi,

Didn't David Purley run a 3.4 V6 in F5000 under the Lec Refrigeration banner. Mid 70's?

Steve

Yup. Purles ran one in F5000.

The block was not enlarged the bores etc. were the same size as the 3.1, however they were "specially selected" blocks with revised crankshaft throw and con rod length to achieve the 3.4l capacity.

jamesholland · 3 Mar 2010, 13:19 (Ref:2644034)

Mike Wilds ran a Ford GAA engined March - was that the car previously raced by Jones or another one?

Dan Rear · 3 Mar 2010, 14:57 (Ref:2644095)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamesholland

Mike Wilds ran a Ford GAA engined March - was that the car previously raced by Jones or another one?

Wilds had the odd go in the ex-Purley Chevron, James. I don't think he had any March V6 outings. The Jones car was later run by RAM for Magee, then Edwards, then Bruce Allison then sprinted by Terry Smith perhaps? The Walkinshaw car was used by Musetti after TW, and written off by him in various guises about 4 times! The Hayje car was also destroyed I think, and the Modus too. The Chevron became Jeff Wilson's BMW Donny GT car.

jamesholland · 3 Mar 2010, 15:05 (Ref:2644097)

My apologies. A little simple research would have told me that the car I was thinking of was in fact the Chevrolet powered 74A

ORP · 4 Mar 2010, 17:48 (Ref:2644971)

There were two spec's of Cosworth 3.4 GAA V6 engines built in the 70's. There was the 'saloon' spec with milder cams and slightly longer trumpets giving around 425 bhp - used in the Cologne Capri's, and the 'F5000' spec with full race cams,higher compression ratio, short trumpets and profiled butterfly's giving around 470 bhp - for the single seater's mentioned previously.
All the original blocks were iron, there was a small number of al-alloy blocks cast in the 80's. One of these was fitted to an ex- D Purley/Lec F5000 car, which was in the US at the time.

Tim Barry · 4 Mar 2010, 18:45 (Ref:2645004)

My brother and I should know a lot about the GA-powered F5000 cars as we have some engines and the unique F5000 March 76A which was originally built for Chris Cramer to hillclimb and we have been circuit racing since 1983! The car is currently undergoing a tub rebuild following my Donington mishap a few years ago but circumstances will probably preclude a return this year so we will have to rely on our F5000 Trojan T102 for a couple pf outings. Pity, because the noise of a GA on full song, unsilenced, is unforgettable! And VERY loud!

SAMD, would you be able to PM me the garage owners name, please. We would be interested in talking to him about his car.

Sarnie · 12 Mar 2010, 21:12 (Ref:2650621)

The GAA used Essex blocks from a special run on the production line, I think most were still not good enough to take the 100mm overbore. The stroke is standard ( I have a Farndon GAA crank in my Essex )
A company called Bonner based at Shoreham Airfield cast some ally blocks for use in light aircraft, some may have been used in racing as later they made there own V6 which was also used in a Group C car.

ASDS · 16 Mar 2010, 16:00 (Ref:2653560)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarnie

A company called Bonner based at Shoreham Airfield cast some ally blocks for use in light aircraft, some may have been used in racing as later they made there own V6 which was also used in a Group C car.

I remember a chap (Leon Bachelier?) running one of the Bonner units in a March Sports Libre on the hills over 10 years ago! Made a wonderful sound.

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