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View Poll Results: which points system would you prefer to be run?
20-15-12-9-7-5-4-3-2-1 + 1 for pp and fl 2 22.22%
15-12-9-7-6-5-4-3-2-1 + 1 for pp and fl 6 66.67%
keep the old system (f1 rules plus 1 point for pp and fl) 1 11.11%
Voters: 9. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 13 Mar 2005, 01:27 (Ref:1250562)   #1
Spudgun
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Spudgun should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpudgun should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpudgun should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
TTFRL Season 4 ideas.

Hello all.

The purpose of this thread is for a nursery of ideas for season 4 of the TTFRL GPL league.

What would YOU like to see incorporated into TTFRL Season 4? All contributions will be considered, the aim is a balanced league that everyone wants to be involved in.

So then guys, lets hear your ideas. There have been plenty expressed in the Season 3 thread, but it seems appropriate for them to have a thread all to themselves. Bless 'em.

Fire away lads!


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Old 13 Mar 2005, 10:17 (Ref:1250697)   #2
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ASCII Man should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridASCII Man should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridASCII Man should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridASCII Man should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Single-Lap Qualifying?
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Old 13 Mar 2005, 10:28 (Ref:1250712)   #3
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pirenzo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridpirenzo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridpirenzo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Just to remind everyone, the small discussion we had about this previously begins in the final paragraph of this post, and continues for next few posts. Might be worth reading that to see what has been already said. Please to comment on and refine any ideas raised then that you like and post your opinions here.
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Old 13 Mar 2005, 14:43 (Ref:1250923)   #4
Gil Abobeleira
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Gil Abobeleira should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
First of all:

- Please, please, please can we race at Mondays or Wednesdays? I race every Tuesday fortnight at the portuguese league and sometimes is hard to get motivated to race twice in the same night (in a way, I left the monza race because latter I had a race at monaco)? Don't mind if the practise starts at 8pm and the race starts at 8.40pm or there-abouts...

As for the important ideas:

a) No one-lap qualifying, as random lag can disrupt it and make a mockery of it (think about the weather on the stupid F1 qualifying rules);
b) I tended to like the idea of racing no more than twice each car... However, it will be hard to someone to organize everything, therefore making it hard to know which car could we take (or, for example, having newcomers racing the lotus or the eagle while we can't use it anymore)....
c) ...however, I have a slight variation of this, based also on the rules used before-hand. What about having the cars in groups, say: lotus+eagle (Group 1); brabham+ferrari (Group 2); cooper/honda/cooper (Group 3) ? Then, at a certain track (for eg: Monza) we would have to choose one of the Group 3 cars... Ofcourse this will have to be chosen before the league starts and will be dependent of the track we'll race... What do you think about this?
d) As for the schedule, 10 races everyfortnight is more than enough. However, racing in the summer (say from the 15th of July to the 7th of September) is a bit worthless, as less people can race because of the holidays (or so I think ). Maybe having a short 7 or 8 race schedule is good enough?
e) Hmm, I particularly dislike the points scheme (it rewards the most consistent and not the fastest...). I prefer a scheme of: 20-15-12-9-7-5-4-3-2-1, with a bonus point given for pole and fastest lap. IMHO ofcourse
f) For the tracks, though it depends on the actual number of races, I'd be looking for a 50/50 distribution for addon and original papy tracks and avoiding the real difficult ones (Monaco, Sachsenring, IoM, etc.), with the exception of the Ring ofcourse

PS: I'd really be hoping for the new league start in a month time or so, to keep us warmed for it
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Old 13 Mar 2005, 15:13 (Ref:1250942)   #5
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pirenzo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridpirenzo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridpirenzo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
The group idea is good. I can see problems though.

E.g. Spa - Group 1. Who is not going to choose the Eagle??

The points scheme needs addressing, I quite like the idea of using the 9-6-4-3-2-1 scheme that was used actually used in 1967. I think 1 point for pole and FL should remain, but as an encouragement, perhaps all finishers should be awarded one point.
Then the first 6 places could be modified to 10-7-5-4-3-2 then 1 point for all finishers thereafter.

Schedule, yeah, I agree, 14 races last year was too long. I think 10 is enough.
I quite like the idea of a couple of GPL65 races in there too.

Also, I think we should keep the most challenging tracks from the papy tracks. We all know those tracks the best, so racing the hardest ones should be no harder than racing easier tracks which we're unfamiliar with. I reckon Keep Monaco, Nurb, Mosport or Kya. Then the two '65 races could be East London and Clermont.
Then we'd need to choose 5 addons which could be a vote between us all.
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Old 14 Mar 2005, 13:27 (Ref:1251578)   #6
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Just in case anyone thinks I've fallen of the face of the earth, I am still about, but with a lot less time on my hands than was the case before. I certainly plan to be racing in season 4 though and will offer my views in due course, after we've got a few more ideas in.
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Old 14 Mar 2005, 15:13 (Ref:1251646)   #7
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petestenning should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
From my personal points of view

A) Normal qualifying
B) points - if we want more people to join, restricting points will get people like me dropping out, as there would be no point in doing races for which i only get 1 point each time.
C) Chassis choice i too would like to see the all chassis being used, how we do this fairly is not going to be easy.
In my league they get extra points for using all 7 chassis during a season enough to make them think about it anyway.

Tuesdays are the only days i can race with u as i have other commitments.

Circuits are up to the league but i dont like narrow tracks where i cant get out of the way ie Monaco

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Old 14 Mar 2005, 16:05 (Ref:1251684)   #8
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ozywoodwards should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
i have to agree that apart from the ring difficult tracks shld be avoided. it is far more fun RACING at silv or monza because people are closer together, are less liekly to hit each other etc. GPL is difficult enough that even easy tracks still offer plenty of opportunities to make mistakes. i would also vote for a 10 race season with traditional qualifying, as the quali session is often the only chance i get to practice on the track we are racing at anyway. definately we shld introduce some sort of system whereby its not single make at every circuit, as if people are in different cars then it will make overtaking easier as people will be quicker and slower at diferent points of the track etc...it should just overall make it more unpredictable and varied. not sure exactly how this can be achieved though.
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Old 14 Mar 2005, 16:20 (Ref:1251706)   #9
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pirenzo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridpirenzo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridpirenzo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I think we're edging towards agreement on some sort of free chassis arrangement, and a 10 race schedule then.

Tracks, well, I would prefer difficult tracks to easy ones, but I think I'm alone there.
That said, a lot of 'easy' tracks aren't all the easy on the face of it, Watkins Glen for example.
If we don't want Monaco for reasons of it being difficult with traffic, then surely we cannot have the 'ring either as its by far the worst track for that.

Any more input on a '65/'67 mix? Its quite possible that the Can-Am mod will be released in the next couple of months too, so mods are something to consider.
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Old 14 Mar 2005, 16:29 (Ref:1251713)   #10
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ozywoodwards should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
ring though doesnt have lapping as its so long...

i think in terms of racing easy=wide and fairly simple and flat - with a minimum of difficult cambers and stuff, like monze, sil, mexico tht kind of thing
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Old 14 Mar 2005, 16:50 (Ref:1251737)   #11
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pirenzo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridpirenzo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridpirenzo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
It does! I've lapped plenty of people there

I'd hate to exclude good tracks though just to take the easy option.
Still, there are lots of good tracks which meet your requirements.
Levin, Rio Cuarto, Buenos Aires '67, Mallory Park, to name a few.

Last edited by pirenzo; 14 Mar 2005 at 16:50.
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Old 14 Mar 2005, 18:21 (Ref:1251828)   #12
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What about Zeltweg good variety of corners and overtaking opportunities?


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Old 14 Mar 2005, 18:46 (Ref:1251845)   #13
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pirenzo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridpirenzo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridpirenzo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Yeah, thats a good one

What about ideas on how to run it without the single chassis rules?

My original idea was that you had to drive every car at least once, and not more than twice.
So for instance, you'd drive all of them once, and then the Lotus, Brabham and Ferrari again for instance.
Would that work?

What about any improvements to Gil's 'group' idea?
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Old 17 Mar 2005, 11:06 (Ref:1254161)   #14
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With people not being able to race at each race it might make it difficult to have a "use 1 car in the season"... I mean if I miss a race I could then just nominate that I would have driven the worst car there?

How about Ayse still dictating which cars we race where... but have maybe 2 or 3 cars from which to choose? this is similar to Gil's idea i think..
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Old 17 Mar 2005, 12:59 (Ref:1254247)   #15
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Originally Posted by Cougar

How about Ayse still dictating which cars we race where... but have maybe 2 or 3 cars from which to choose? this is similar to Gil's idea i think..

Personally, I much prefer the idea of a substantial element of "free choice". Subject to sensible limitations though which prevent someone from using the same (faster) chassis over and over again.

My initial thought was that you could use whatever car you like, but you must use every chassis once before using one for the second time. But with only 10 races (with which I agree, I should add), this would be too proscriptive. I would therefore suggest free choice, but no-one may use a chassis for the third time unless he has already used all 6 other chassis.

What slightly concerns me is those people who may be perceived to pick and choose a limited number of races to take part in. If we aren't careful about how we apply any limitations on chassis use, the driver who only does, say, 6 races during the season, could do the lot in the Lotus, Ferrari and Eagle.......

On the subject of circuits - I don't think we'll ever agree on the right 10. Personally, I don't think the Ring makes for good ingter long racing. I would like to see shorter circuits where the chances of actually racing other drivers are all the greater......

My four penneth.
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Old 18 Mar 2005, 16:03 (Ref:1255279)   #16
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pirenzo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridpirenzo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridpirenzo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Perhaps to help trace who drove what at what race people could nominate the car they wanted to drive at each race prior to the season beginning.
If they missed a race, whichever car they would have driven for that race would then me moved the next race they attended, and then they'd continue from there (so all the cars would shift along one round of the calender).
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Old 18 Mar 2005, 17:19 (Ref:1255336)   #17
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or...if u miss a race then that choice is simply wiped, and the other choices stay the same. i only say this as it is possible that people will choose car's based on a particular tracks characteristics
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Old 18 Mar 2005, 17:23 (Ref:1255340)   #18
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pirenzo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridpirenzo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridpirenzo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Yes. So it would be possible to just miss your BRM race on purpose or something. That's what Cougar was getting at. That way whatever race you came back to, you'd then still have to drive the BRM.
I think choice by track characteristic will happen anyway, and that will all become part of the strategy...

If we don't want strategic car choices then we either go back to single car, or people get given a car for the whole season, which mimics real life, but its a bit dodgy assigning people a car to drive...
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Old 24 Mar 2005, 00:12 (Ref:1260304)   #19
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hi there (small voice from the back)

what about what i thought

joker cars

have chassis nominated for the races but throw in,say two joker cars per season,where you can pick what you want to race with but only twice

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Old 24 Mar 2005, 21:59 (Ref:1261123)   #20
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carsreunited should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Ideas

I know I'm in the minority here having only found GPL in January. My point is, I've only just raced the original tracks with the Lotus. I did a few laps in the ferarri once. I'm still trying to get better and having to get used to all the cars is going to make me a much bigger duffer than I already am!

How about people with a +100 GPL rank racing whatever they want? If they don't have a GPL Rank then they have to go with whatever is dictated in the regs?

Scott
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Old 24 Mar 2005, 22:53 (Ref:1261150)   #21
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pirenzo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridpirenzo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridpirenzo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Well, as far as competition goes, that wouldn't hurt anybody, but I'll tell you for free that you need to drive all the cars to get better. What you learn in the Lotus or any other car won't cover all the aspects of driving the GPL cars. You have to be able to adapt yourself to the other cars, because what you learn driving the slower cars will help you with the faster ones, and you won't pick up that knowledge from the Lotus.

I honestly think you'd benefit from an element of restricted choice. Otherwise you'd stick to what you're most comfortable with and improve painfully slowly.
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Old 27 Mar 2005, 11:00 (Ref:1262809)   #22
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Spudgun should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpudgun should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpudgun should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I quite like the idea of people nominating which cars they want to run at each track before the season starts. I like it because it does bring an element of strategy. People have different driving styles and get on better with different cars and may do better with different car/track combinations. For example, I remember back last year sometime discussing the Brabham with pirenzo. I liked the way it handled and he didn't. Of course it could all be different now as things change, but thats how it was at the time.

If, as the example has been used, someone wants to purposely miss their BRM race, then fair enough. They just won't get any points. If by chance everyone chose the BRM for a certain track and no one showed up, I'd happily drive around by myself for 40 minutes and take the points.

I think it would be unfair to force the car order to be shifted along to the next race, as the reason for someone missing a race could be genuine. You could never prove it otherwise. In my case, I have missed the odd race due to other commitments and I will admit I'd be very annoyed if my choice of car/track combinations was totally thrown out for the whole season just because I had to go on a short notice business trip.

Last edited by Spudgun; 27 Mar 2005 at 11:03.
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Old 27 Mar 2005, 17:39 (Ref:1263027)   #23
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pirenzo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridpirenzo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridpirenzo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
That's a fair point Spud.

So far it seems the choice format would be something like this:

10 races, 7 cars.

Each participant nominates a car for each round, whereby you can use any car for any race, but you can't use any chassis for a third time unless you have already used the other 6 at least once. (Ayse's idea).

e.g.
1. Ferrari
2. Honda
3. Cooper
4. BRM
5. Lotus
6. Eagle
7. Brabham
8. Ferrari (2)
9. Lotus (2)
10. Lotus (3, can use third time because all other chassis have been used once)

I don't think that we should nominate for the entire season all at once.
Perhaps we should have to nominate for the first 5 races, and then nominate for the final 5 after the 5th race. This would allow a sort of mid season strategy switch should you want to. Obviously, the choice for the second half would be restricted by what you'd already raced.
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Old 28 Mar 2005, 08:50 (Ref:1263370)   #24
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Kidzer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridKidzer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Sounds good, I went and bought a copy of GPL last night and have updated all the cars and so on, any tracks i should download? Cheers folks
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Old 28 Mar 2005, 09:54 (Ref:1263386)   #25
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pirenzo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridpirenzo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridpirenzo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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