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16 Jun 2003, 15:37 (Ref:633080)
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#1 | |
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Racer
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 285
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What exactly makes the Norma so slow?
Its obvious that the Norma, if its Le Mans, Sebring, old Grand Am SRP, its just plain slow. They have ran BMW and Ford engines, but nothing seems to help.
How old is the car? Why is it so bad? Who designed it? |
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16 Jun 2003, 15:53 (Ref:633099)
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#2 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,215
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Norma is a French manufacturer...I have no idea how old the chassis is or when it was designed, but if you look at pictures of the chassis versus images of the other prototypes in its class, aerodynamically, it looks to be totally out-classed....
I also don't know exactly what kind of Ford engine it had in it, but it obviously was not one of the Panoz-built Elan engines, and apparently not built by a noted North American Ford race engine builder like Yates or Roush from NASCAR....otherwise it would have been named as such.... The displacement numbers for the engine read slightly less than the other Ford-derived engines in the race.... They did not belong at LM, but we've been saying that since the invites were announced in March.... |
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__________________
Finally... One American Open Wheel Series!
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16 Jun 2003, 16:09 (Ref:633127)
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#3 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,147
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To me it looks like a bad copy of the Lola B98. I'd bet it's got deficiencies everywhere you look, compared to the bulk of the current LMP crop. Power, aero, suspension geometry, weight...
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__________________
... Since all men live in darkness, who believes something is not a test of whether it is true or false. I have spent years trying to get people to ask simple questions: What is the evidence, and what does it mean? -Bill James
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16 Jun 2003, 16:24 (Ref:633154)
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#4 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,580
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It was an enormously disappointing performance by the Norma.
What makes them so slow? - Lack of money. They are not a shoestring effort; they are so underfunded they wish they had shoestrings. The car is basically a 2000 vintage GrandAm car, so in essence built to emulate the R&S Mk.III. "Conservative" is the catchword here. Norbert Santos could turn this car into a decent midfielder if given the cash. From what I recall, the Ford V8 engines are built by Hertel. Still, they keep on keeping on while others are not. John Nielsen is now thinking about doing only Le Mans next year, "to focus on testing". Sums up the dilemma of modern sportscar racing - what good is a state-of-the-art car when you don't race it. |
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Oops
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16 Jun 2003, 16:31 (Ref:633161)
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#5 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,580
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__________________
Oops
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16 Jun 2003, 18:31 (Ref:633284)
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#6 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,215
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The frontal area of the car reminds me of the Crawford chasis with the shape of the nose, fenders and air cooling intakes...the back does look a lot like the old R&S Mk.IIIA....
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__________________
Finally... One American Open Wheel Series!
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16 Jun 2003, 19:16 (Ref:633338)
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#7 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 2,211
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That was one old / ugly car, with poor aerodynamics, an engine very short of ponies, with average drivers.. and no reliability.
Other than that, I thought it went rather well... |
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23 May 2010, 23:35 (Ref:2696840)
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#8 | ||
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Rookie
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 30
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What a rotten bunch so much speculation and not one made the effort to ask Norma. The car was not as bad or as slow as you all believe.
the chassis was designed & built between 99-2000 and was meant to offer a car priced below the Grand-Am cap of $650,000. I know details you say but details missed in the comments just the same. So no in ALMS it did not compare with the Lola chassis or the Porsche but it also did not cost 1.2 million either.There were two cars the first was the M2000-1 which had the BMW engine from Mader that keapt blowing. Mader could not resolve the problem we did but it meant dialing the engine down & losing 250 BHP. But it still came 4th & the next year 5th in the Grand-Am championship. The Ford engine deal on the M2000-2 was a disaster we all regret not doing the deal with David Bose & Elan Todd was out of his league & we suffered for it. He in all fairness took over the engine program but was unable to build a second engine. However it managed a decent finish at Petit & qualified for LeMans still a great deal more than some cars. |
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24 May 2010, 00:43 (Ref:2696859)
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#9 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,487
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Holy 7 year old thread revival batman.
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24 May 2010, 01:31 (Ref:2696870)
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#10 | ||
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Rookie
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 30
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Well whilst I was stompin on the recent comments about the M200 I thought I would get heavier boots on mate & I thought Panoz was Batman
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24 May 2010, 01:38 (Ref:2696872)
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#11 | ||
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Rookie
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 30
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By the way I will be wearin my oversize boots at LeMans so if anyone has any sheep???
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24 May 2010, 07:44 (Ref:2696950)
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#12 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,182
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Panhard : How did the testing go thusfar of the new car, as I said before it looks good and I hope they can manage something nice at Le Mans
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__________________
Let's make better mistakes tomorrow!
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24 May 2010, 07:45 (Ref:2696952)
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#13 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,269
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He did post a few impressions in the thread about the M200 a couple of days ago, if I remember correctly.
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__________________
When in doubt? C4.
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25 May 2010, 15:29 (Ref:2697922)
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#14 | ||
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Rookie
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 30
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tests went very well,M200 was faster than Pegasus Courage with the same engine. Drivers took both cars out at Nogaro. All said car feels better in a straight line it is quicker & has superior handling in the twisty bits one major difference is the car is more comfortable to drive...happy drivers faster times
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25 May 2010, 18:58 (Ref:2698112)
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#15 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,182
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That's good to hear, now let's wait if you guys can give it a striking livery!
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__________________
Let's make better mistakes tomorrow!
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25 May 2010, 21:22 (Ref:2698216)
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#16 | ||
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Team Crouton
20KPINAL
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 39,570
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Sorry Panhard, it's probably just me asking a silly question - what's your connection with the team?
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__________________
44 days...
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26 May 2010, 02:33 (Ref:2698307)
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#17 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 8,611
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Quote:
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__________________
Somebody asked if the McLaren F1 was going to be like the Ferrari F40, Gordon Murray replied, "I don't think so, there's no one at McLaren who can weld that badly."
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26 May 2010, 12:51 (Ref:2698543)
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#18 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,182
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as a matter of fact I would like to know as well.
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__________________
Let's make better mistakes tomorrow!
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26 May 2010, 14:14 (Ref:2698602)
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#19 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,958
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Panhard was the team Manager for the Normas that ran in North America in Grand Am and ALMS. I believe he has an ongoing relationship with them and "perhaps" even some commercial rights in North America (though wait for confirmation before concluding).
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26 May 2010, 14:47 (Ref:2698620)
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#20 | |||
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Racer
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 366
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Quote:
http://www.panhardmotorsports.com/ Check out the News link... Mariantic |
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26 May 2010, 18:59 (Ref:2698766)
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#21 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,182
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Ah that would explain a lot.
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__________________
Let's make better mistakes tomorrow!
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26 May 2010, 19:24 (Ref:2698783)
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#22 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,710
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So are they buying/selling the Norma car then instead of build an own?
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26 May 2010, 19:25 (Ref:2698786)
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#23 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 944
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Quote:
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26 May 2010, 19:25 (Ref:2698787)
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#24 | ||
 Race OfficialVeteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 7,618
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EebA2LrJudk
Norma @ Circuit Bugatti |
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__________________
Apocalypse becomes creation / Gor-Gor shall erase the nation Before you leap into his gizzard / Fall and worship Tyrant lizard Ciao Marco
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26 May 2010, 19:32 (Ref:2698790)
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#25 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,182
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Nice find ! Dani, I am really starting to like this car, though it sounds on film as if it driving through a gravel bed all the time!
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__________________
Let's make better mistakes tomorrow!
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