What exactly makes the Norma so slow?

[rich07]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Panhard was the team Manager for the Normas that ran in North America in Grand Am and ALMS. I believe he has an ongoing relationship with them and "perhaps" even some commercial rights in North America (though wait for confirmation before concluding).

Originally Posted by mariantic

Try this link for more info:-

http://www.panhardmotorsports.com/

Check out the News link...


Mariantic

Thanks guys.

[Panhard]

Just to sort things out yes I was team manager for Sezio Florida Racing & Marketing Director for Norma North America. I continue working with Norma running Norma North America with Edouard Sezionale. I started PMD when Edouard closed the team & Norma scaled back involvement in the USA no the Amur was designed & built by PMD although the steering rack is from the M20 no other parts are the same. Our car is currently going through a chassis re-engineer and will still be available for sale. Before anyone asks about conflict of interest the reality is that I have the full support of Norma in undertaking the Amur project it in turn has given me the skills to be a greater asset to Norma as I now have a far greater understanding of the complexities in building a prototype all which I may add have come into play with building the M200. I will be at LeMans with the other operating officers of Norma collaborating with Pegasus. Hope you support us

[Dani Filth]

people always tend to support the "underdog".. so i'm sure Norma won't lack support at the big one

[isynge]

Originally Posted by Dani Filth

people always tend to support the "underdog".. so i'm sure Norma won't lack support at the big one

Absolutely - really looking forward to seeing it in the flesh and hope the week goes well for the everyone in the team.

[Panhard]

Perhaps you have missed all the press hipe.Norma is not the underdog.
Currently the only spotscar manufacturer in Europe to have manufactured an FIA ACO appoved 2011 spec LMP2. They are being hailed as the future.

[ger80]

Panhard, do you still plan to upgrade the Amur to LMP2 spec or will it remain C/DSR?

[Panhard]

We are currently updating the chassis to meet new crash regs

[Aysedasi]

Well thanks for all that Panhard, much appreciated.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Panhard

Perhaps you have missed all the press hipe.Norma is not the underdog.
Currently the only spotscar manufacturer in Europe to have manufactured an FIA ACO appoved 2011 spec LMP2. They are being hailed as the future.

1. Why is there still talk about regs not yet being finalised, is this just for P1, i.e, hybrids/engines etc.?

2. Presumably Norma have a good understanding of the P2 engine options for next year, have GT2 manufactuers indicated they are willing to sell/lease engines or will teams be looking at production based motors from independant sources like the IES designed Nissan V8?

Are Judd, AER, Cosworth, Zytek etc. following IES by working on production based motors for P2, I presume they won't want to give up this market.

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by JAG

1. Why is there still talk about regs not yet being finalised, is this just for P1, i.e, hybrids/engines etc.?

2. Presumably Norma have a good understanding of the P2 engine options for next year, have GT2 manufactuers indicated they are willing to sell/lease engines or will teams be looking at production based motors from independant sources like the IES designed Nissan V8?

Are Judd, AER, Cosworth, Zytek etc. following IES by working on production based motors for P2, I presume they won't want to give up this market.

The engine regulations have not been finalized yet. If you read Mulsanne's Corner last month, we delved into some of the uncertainty and discontent with the current draft of the regulations. The GT2 angle that the ACO is advocating for its "low cost" is pure fantasy and will substantially increase costs all around given that the proposed LMP2 regulations allow changes to nearly all the internals. Will the ACO hear those who will be effected? We'll know next month when the regulations should be finalized at the 24.

[JAG]

Wasn't the point of allowing GT2 engines the fact you could buy a fully developed engine?

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by JAG

Wasn't the point of allowing GT2 engines the fact you could buy a fully developed engine?

Fully developed engines already exits in the form of current LMP2 engines. With a differentiation of restrictors you could then run the same engines in either P1 or P2. But then that would have been too easy. Instead, the proposal is for "homologated" engines, defined as such:

a. The engine must be made in a minimum of 1000 units in 12 consecutive months and come :
- Either from a grand touring car,
- Or from a large production cars.

And while the block and cylinder heads can't be modified, the list of free is such:

Crank shaft, flywheel, connecting rods, pistons, valves, valve train, camshafts, intake and exhaust system, ECU, lubrication and cooling systems.

So you could start with a GT2 engine, but then you'd want to swap most of the internals out in order to find a competitive advantage.

[ger80]

Think they should just go for GrandAm engines ...

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by ger80

Think they should just go for GrandAm engines ...

with rules from 5 years ago, perhaps. DP-engines have become really expensive in recent years and have too much power for the ACO's target-hp-figures...

[Flyin Ryan]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

with rules from 5 years ago, perhaps. DP-engines have become really expensive in recent years and have too much power for the ACO's target-hp-figures...

Ironic.

MulsanneMike: The GT2 angle that the ACO is advocating for its "low cost" is pure fantasy and will substantially increase costs all around given that the proposed LMP2 regulations allow changes to nearly all the internals.

The GT2 engine in the GT2 car does or does not allow changes to those same internal components?

[JAG]

Originally Posted by MulsanneMike

Fully developed engines already exits in the form of current LMP2 engines. With a differentiation of restrictors you could then run the same engines in either P1 or P2. But then that would have been too easy. Instead, the proposal is for "homologated" engines, defined as such:

a. The engine must be made in a minimum of 1000 units in 12 consecutive months and come :
- Either from a grand touring car,
- Or from a large production cars.

And while the block and cylinder heads can't be modified, the list of free is such:

Crank shaft, flywheel, connecting rods, pistons, valves, valve train, camshafts, intake and exhaust system, ECU, lubrication and cooling systems.

So you could start with a GT2 engine, but then you'd want to swap most of the internals out in order to find a competitive advantage.

Have things changed from the original proposal as there seemed to be a distinction made between homologated GT2 engines and production motors.

And LMP2 will have the following choice (limited to 420 BHP):-

* 4.0 ltr production based petrol engine homologated to 2010 LM GT2
* 4.5 ltr production based petrol engine
* 4.0 ltr production diesel engine with induction as per the original

The IES Nissan V8 seems to have muddied the waters as it is a production engine but rather than being built to the 4.5l production regs, they've been given the go ahead to design it to the same spec as a 4.0l homologated GT2 engine.

Presumably production engines are 500cc larger than homologated GT2 motors as they are allowed fewer modifications.

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by JAG

Have things changed from the original proposal as there seemed to be a distinction made between homologated GT2 engines and production motors.



The IES Nissan V8 seems to have muddied the waters as it is a production engine but rather than being built to the 4.5l production regs, they've been given the go ahead to design it to the same spec as a 4.0l homologated GT2 engine.

Presumably production engines are 500cc larger than homologated GT2 motors as they are allowed fewer modifications.

The preliminary regs I have show the LMP2 diesel option at 4.4 liters, 5.0, 8 cylinder max for normally aspirated, and 4.0 liter, 8 cylinder max for turbo...but, am now told the diesel option is gone. There is currently no distinction between GT2 and Homologated.

[davehenrie]

The spotter's guide is out, The Norma is near the bottom. Is this the official livery or a best guess?

[WMUCarGuy]

Originally Posted by davehenrie

The spotter's guide is out, The Norma is near the bottom. Is this the official livery or a best guess?

That's their old Courage I'm pretty sure. I'd guess the Norma will be added in the next update.

[Victor_RO]

The official livery of the new Norma (not the one originally discussed in this thread) is just basic sky blue, revealed in photos from the paddock yesterday and scrutineering today.

[Panhard]

It is a shame this discussion ran out of steam.....as for grand-Am engines the Ferrari is one of the engines homologated for LMP2..and I agree with Mike's comments