Supercars Gen 3 (2022)

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Driver TBA

Didn't the Kia boss say he'd support a racing Stinger. If someone else funded the development and homologation.

Originally Posted by one five five

Which pretty much negates the point of chasing a new marque into the series, unless you’ve got a benefactor with a preference for a certain badge (ie.... Erebus and Mercedes)

The BTCC, however, has an abundance of different marques -- most of which are privately built without any factory funding. With all vehicles using the same front and rear subframes and control suspension, and most vehicles using the same TOCA category engine, it is straightforward to introduce a new manufacturer.

888 talking tech on BTCC: link "The running costs of the cars are quite cheap. Engines cost $50,000 for the season, including one rebuild. Parity is really well done."

Why does Supercars make it so darn hard by comparison!?


https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/a...tcc-first-time

The Suffolk-based squad, which made its BTCC debut this year, will mothball its older MG6 GT chassis in favour of running a pair of freshly built Hyundai i30 Fastback N machines.

You buy your Hyundai i30 Fastback bodyshells in, the glass is all production standard, the body panels are mostly production standard apart from the bumpers and front quarters.

You can even unbolt the control subframes and category engine from your old car, in this case MG6 hatchbacks, and bolt them straight into your new car.... All you have to do is build the hard points into your new rollcage.

The BTCC makes it easy and straightforward. The BTCC even hires the fullsize wind tunnel so you can turn up and get your aero package homologated.





How come Supercars can't do it!?

Having similar basic regulations except with rear wheel drive only (instead of choice of FWD or RWD) and 635hp V8-only (instead of 380hp 2.0L only) should be very straightforward. Indeed, it should be even easier as there is only one drive layout.

[johnh875]

Note lack of rolling floor... presumably without heads exploding

[chavez]

Err, Ford is an official partner of the SCCA Trans Am series.....and the constructor of the bodies are also approved by the respective manufactures.

That why Seamer's comments were unnecessary.

[Sandgroper]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

The BTCC, however, has an abundance of different marques -- most of which are privately built without any factory funding. With all vehicles using the same front and rear subframes and control suspension, and most vehicles using the same TOCA category engine, it is straightforward to introduce a new manufacturer.

888 talking tech on BTCC: link "The running costs of the cars are quite cheap. Engines cost $50,000 for the season, including one rebuild. Parity is really well done."

Why does Supercars make it so darn hard by comparison!?


https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/a...tcc-first-time



You buy your Hyundai i30 Fastback bodyshells in, the glass is all production standard, the body panels are mostly production standard apart from the bumpers and front quarters.

You can even unbolt the control subframes and category engine from your old car, in this case MG6 hatchbacks, and bolt them straight into your new car.... All you have to do is build the hard points into your new rollcage.

The BTCC makes it easy and straightforward. The BTCC even hires the fullsize wind tunnel so you can turn up and get your aero package homologated.





How come Supercars can't do it!?

Having similar basic regulations except with rear wheel drive only (instead of choice of FWD or RWD) and 635hp V8-only (instead of 380hp 2.0L only) should be very straightforward. Indeed, it should be even easier as there is only one drive layout.

HOW BORING !

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Sandgroper

HOW BORING !

What is boring about a set of regulations that gives close racing, full grids, multiple marques represented and is (relatively) affordable for teams to enter?

They've even got Ford and Holden (Vauxhall) represented if you want to retain tribal allegiance.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by chavez

Err, Ford is an official partner of the SCCA Trans Am series.....and the constructor of the bodies are also approved by the respective manufactures.

That why Seamer's comments were unnecessary.

Aaaah - so you haven't been following the saga of who owns the rights in Australia / NZ then?

The dust-up between ARG / Tony Hunter / Motorsport Australia / TA2 Australia / PBR?

That's why there are 2 x TA2 series running here right now, one of them under Motorsport Australia sanction, the other under AASA sanction - similar field sizes in each so far.

That's what Seamer was referring to and he was right on the money.

[Sandgroper]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

What is boring about a set of regulations that gives close racing, full grids, multiple marques represented and is (relatively) affordable for teams to enter?

They've even got Ford and Holden (Vauxhall) represented if you want to retain tribal allegiance.

Our series is far from boring
Sorry I still am old school. I want V8s another TCR series isnt for me sadly.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Sandgroper

Our series is far from boring
Sorry I still am old school. I want V8s another TCR series isnt for me sadly.

Were you paying attention!?

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Having similar basic regulations except with rear wheel drive only (instead of choice of FWD or RWD) and 635hp V8-only (instead of 380hp 2.0L only) should be very straightforward. Indeed, it should be even easier as there is only one drive layout.

I even said you could have the same basic BTCC rules but rear-wheel-drive only and V8 only. Why would that be boring!?

It would be a lot more like this:


And a lot less like this:


And that can only be a good thing IMO! Steel doors, glass glass --- its crazy speak, ain't it!

More of this:

(An actual Ford Falcon!)

And less of this:

(Seriously, what the heck is this thing!? It's more Frankenstein's monster than it is Ford Mustang!)

[Sandgroper]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Were you paying attention!?

Yep paying attention but got lost when you started spruking I30's

Sadly IM finding it hard to grasp there is no longer the Australian Touring Car Championship ............. I know I know your gonna say its not that now but the traditionalist in me cant grasp the concept of no holden gracing the race track again in V8 commodore concept.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Sandgroper

Our series is far from boring
Sorry I still am old school. I want V8s another TCR series isnt for me sadly.

NGTC is not TCR. It already permits RWD, so wouldn't take much to allow V8s if that is essential.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Sandgroper

cant grasp the concept of no holden gracing the race track again in V8 commodore concept.

The V8 Commodore doesn't exist anymore, apart from as a used and classic car...

Ford enthusiasts have moved on from the Falcon, isn't it time for Holden enthusiasts to do the same?

Originally Posted by Sandgroper

Yep paying attention but got lost when you started spruking I30's

Why don't you like the Hyundai i30?

It seems pretty fun -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSJU7SWYgxw -- and it's a way more economical fun car to own than a V8 Commodore!

[DaviePHD]

I'd like to see a Chevy Camaro, and a Dodge Challenger,

[chavez]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Aaaah - so you haven't been following the saga of who owns the rights in Australia / NZ then?

The dust-up between ARG / Tony Hunter / Motorsport Australia / TA2 Australia / PBR?

That's why there are 2 x TA2 series running here right now, one of them under Motorsport Australia sanction, the other under AASA sanction - similar field sizes in each so far.

That's what Seamer was referring to and he was right on the money.

He was talking about the body shapes, not the disagreements between sanctioning bodies.

https://autoaction.com.au/2019/10/09...-support-storm

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by chavez

He was talking about the body shapes, not the disagreements between sanctioning bodies.

https://autoaction.com.au/2019/10/09...-support-storm

Gotcha - sorry, my bad, didn't realise what he said was from so long ago, thought it was more recent - as you were, carry on.

[Sandgroper]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

The V8 Commodore doesn't exist anymore, apart from as a used and classic car...

Ford enthusiasts have moved on from the Falcon, isn't it time for Holden enthusiasts to do the same?



Why don't you like the Hyundai i30?

It seems pretty fun -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSJU7SWYgxw -- and it's a way more economical fun car to own than a V8 Commodore!

Sadly I have nothing to move on too
I guess I have to start with the Camaro.

As much as its fun, Im happy with my 6ltr

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Sandgroper

Sadly I have nothing to move on too
I guess I have to start with the Camaro.

As much as its fun, Im happy with my 6ltr

Move on to Mustang, it's a better motor anyway.

[Sandgroper]

Originally Posted by bluesport

Move on to Mustang, it's a better motor anyway.

I cant, its not in my red blood and the race car looks sh1thouse.

Mind you, as a road car its bloody gorgeous

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

I even said you could have the same basic BTCC rules but rear-wheel-drive only and V8 only. Why would that be boring!?

And if they exist, maybe we could have them too! Someone tried to do something similar a few years ago. After much media hype, I think 3 cars turned out for the first round. There wasn't a second round.

[chavez]

Want you can do with limited manufacturer support and without mega budgets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5a2xdvsVC8

[benny41]

Iv been thinking about how supercars can get themselves out of this issue. Ultimately they have to find a car type that fits the following criteria
1 similar speed to the current series
2 cheaper to build / maintain than the current series
3 offer good entertainment to the fans
4 Be reliant on no manufacturer support. The adage of win on sunday sell on monday is dead and the sport needs to accept this.

In my mind a version of ta2 ckeeps coming up trumps, get a good spaceframe chassis( nasacar as inspiration?), bring in a rule that allows you to run what ever engine you like but its power controlled and limited to a set number in both tourque , power and fuel economy and dress them with an areodynamically similar body. Use a windtunnel at the start of each season to sort it out and go from there.

I would then try and work out a way to get more teams and cars involved, there should be an aim to get 40 cars on the grid yes you are going to get some gentleman drivers but setup a privateers cup and let them have a separate race before in the race weekend.

The biggest challenge with this will be how to unwind the current rec setup so that the current teams get their investment back and the new teams that want to be involved can get involved it would add massively to the show of supercars as you are going to get more action.

The important part for all this to work is that supercars need to continue to market it well. We can all argue about the decisions that have been made in the past but no matter how you cut and dice it supercars have done a great job in bringing what was a majority privateer sport into most peoples homes on a regular basis. They have done it better than any other motorsport series in this country.

Thats my 2 cents anyway

[JAFA851]

Originally Posted by chavez

Want you can do with limited manufacturer support and without mega budgets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5a2xdvsVC8

There's a VE Clubsport in there back in about 7th position!!!

[E.B]

Originally Posted by benny41

.... supercars have done a great job in bringing what was a majority privateer sport into most peoples homes on a regular basis. They have done it better than any other motorsport series in this country.

I dont see that.... they now have live availability to only Pay TV and Pay streaming serviceswith next to nothing live on FTA, more or less knocking out access to at least 70% of the population.

I will agree they bought/built a good TV following when they had it on FTA but of late have sent it packing with Pay only live access.

[benny41]

Do you still think that the supercars brand is the strongest motorsport brand domestically outside of f1?
Its still the only form of domestic motorsport that gets a mention on nightly sports bulletins.
Ask your non motorsport mates to name another motorsport series in this country i bet they dont come back with anything.

I dont see the series being in too different of a situation even if it had been/was on fta now. We would probably have a few less teams and It certainly wouldnt have stopped holden leaving. The glory days of ch 10 dedicating afternoons of coverage and paying good money to do it are long gone

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by benny41

Iv been thinking about how supercars can get themselves out of this issue. Ultimately they have to find a car type that fits the following criteria
1 similar speed to the current series
2 cheaper to build / maintain than the current series
3 offer good entertainment to the fans
4 Be reliant on no manufacturer support. The adage of win on sunday sell on monday is dead and the sport needs to accept this.

In my mind a version of ta2 ckeeps coming up trumps, get a good spaceframe chassis( nasacar as inspiration?), bring in a rule that allows you to run what ever engine you like but its power controlled and limited to a set number in both tourque , power and fuel economy and dress them with an areodynamically similar body. Use a windtunnel at the start of each season to sort it out and go from there.

I would then try and work out a way to get more teams and cars involved, there should be an aim to get 40 cars on the grid yes you are going to get some gentleman drivers but setup a privateers cup and let them have a separate race before in the race weekend.

The biggest challenge with this will be how to unwind the current rec setup so that the current teams get their investment back and the new teams that want to be involved can get involved it would add massively to the show of supercars as you are going to get more action.

The important part for all this to work is that supercars need to continue to market it well. We can all argue about the decisions that have been made in the past but no matter how you cut and dice it supercars have done a great job in bringing what was a majority privateer sport into most peoples homes on a regular basis. They have done it better than any other motorsport series in this country.

Thats my 2 cents anyway

Option 5 - Declare insolvency and quit.
I am pretty convinced if they can’t get a new tv deal that pays well their cost structure is such there is no way forward.
As a matter of record previous touring car championship categories in Australia have lasted for the following lengths
Improved Production-13 years
Group C-12 years
Group A-8 years
V8’s will have lasted 28 years by the end of 2020.It may be that their time is up.

[Casper]

I remember being told many years ago that a class of racing was reckoned to have a 15 year life span but that was before professional racing that we have now. No class can last forever but I would like to think that a plan is in place to transition to another viable racing series when the viability of the present series becomes an issue. If they don't have such a plan a lot of people are going to take a cold shower financially which is damned unfair simply because the management are very poor at doing their job.