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Old 23 Jul 2006, 12:41 (Ref:1662703)   #1
RotorFan
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Track Safety at V8 Supercar Events

It seems like every round there is a major lack of competency in the various officials.

How could they let a race go back to green when there was shrapnel from Whincups brakes all over the track? They didn't show what happened during the break when that happened but even looking at the track you could see it was still littered with debris down the straight and pit exit. One of the cars exiting the pit ran over a chunk of it too.

What about the cars literally racing past the rescue vehicle when the track was meant to be full-course yellow? That was astounding. Every single offending car should have been DQ for that.

All that and yet they bring out a safety car for Bargwanna's safely placed car.

Getting away with handing out ludicrous penalties is one thing, but the lack of accountability in areas of safety is crazy.
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Old 23 Jul 2006, 13:05 (Ref:1662717)   #2
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Chatters should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridChatters should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Too bloody right mate. These marhsals need to get their acts together. My dad was a marshal, and I spent some time with him at Eastern Creek checking out the sights. It's OK to have a laugh, but when you're called up, you need to do what they want you to do. No questions asked.

What about that Marshal that ran across the track while under a green flag? This is just incompetance by the marshals these days. Most of you would remember a marshal at Adelaide in...2001 or 02, running out on a wet track to collect some debris. If it's that important, you can called a Safety Car (but not for car that's not in the way)

The drivers too! Safety Car was out, and those guys were still driving full tilt! If one of them had speared off on the front straight, death would have been a certainty for those guys.

What do you reckon guys, do we need a changing of the guard over who's controlling the races these days, if so, who?
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Old 23 Jul 2006, 13:38 (Ref:1662728)   #3
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Your concerns in this instance is valid about those marshalls running across the track (Adelaide 2000 and in Darwin in front of BOC car), but on the whole, V8 Supercar has safetycar itis. Just watch an F1 race, they'll have diggers and cranes in the sandtraps and only have a local yellow, which in my opinion is sufficient. The only problem with the local yellows is that the drivers don't often observe the intended speed reduction.
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Old 23 Jul 2006, 21:07 (Ref:1662948)   #4
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Originally Posted by cmifsud
Your concerns in this instance is valid about those marshalls running across the track (Adelaide 2000 and in Darwin in front of BOC car), but on the whole, V8 Supercar has safetycar itis. Just watch an F1 race, they'll have diggers and cranes in the sandtraps and only have a local yellow, which in my opinion is sufficient. The only problem with the local yellows is that the drivers don't often observe the intended speed reduction.
What about the safety of the trackside officials, or maybe you should go out there, be working in a sandtrap to get one of these pieces of garbage out and have 2,3,4,5 cars whistling past at race speed, sure they are not overtaking each other, but they are not slowing down either.
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Old 24 Jul 2006, 11:38 (Ref:1663305)   #5
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Maybe if you just went for the local yellow, but make them engage the pit-lane speed limiter when then encounter the first yellow flag, and let them turn it off when they get back to the green flag. First person to go too far past the yellow without engaging it gets pinged to prove they are serious.
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Old 24 Jul 2006, 11:56 (Ref:1663316)   #6
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Chatters should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridChatters should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I think the idea of a penalty for a speed restriction is a good idea, but 40 km/h is a but to slow. Imagine the amount of rear enders you'd end up with. It would be too unconventional.
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Old 24 Jul 2006, 12:04 (Ref:1663323)   #7
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Maybe a yellow speed limiter of 80-100kmh...

Put control lines on the circuit for different circuit sectors.

Sector 1 (turns 1-2) is under yellow..

Sector 2 under green.

Any car found going over the speed limit between lines gets a drive through.
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Old 24 Jul 2006, 13:19 (Ref:1663375)   #8
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I guess the other problem with that is that the maximum safe speed at any point under yellows would vary depending on the location, the nature of the incident and the response required. There would be some areas and occasions where 80-100km/h under yellow would be fine, others where 40 might still be excessive.
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Old 24 Jul 2006, 21:37 (Ref:1663678)   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RotorFan
How could they let a race go back to green when there was shrapnel from Whincups brakes all over the track? They didn't show what happened during the break when that happened but even looking at the track you could see it was still littered with debris down the straight and pit exit. One of the cars exiting the pit ran over a chunk of it too.
Sorry if this is off topic a little bit but,

I don't know if it was from Whincups brake adventure, but apparently Kees Weel was hit in the face by shrapnel from Whincups car!
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Old 24 Jul 2006, 23:42 (Ref:1663758)   #10
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Originally Posted by observer
Sorry if this is off topic a little bit but,

I don't know if it was from Whincups brake adventure, but apparently Kees Weel was hit in the face by shrapnel from Whincups car!
I was appalled that Channel 10 did not show any interest in the well being of the people lining pit wall. Rust or Beattie told them a brake disc exploded and chunks had flown over the pit wall and it took them some time to acknowledge it and finally say "lets hope they're safe" or whatever it was. They didn't sound very suprised about it at all.

As far as yellow-speed-limiters and control lines and stuff, what about just using common sense?
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Old 24 Jul 2006, 23:53 (Ref:1663762)   #11
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Originally Posted by RotorFan
what about just using common sense?


We are talking about V8Supercar drivers here aren't we
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Old 25 Jul 2006, 00:20 (Ref:1663773)   #12
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Originally Posted by observer
Sorry if this is off topic a little bit but,

I don't know if it was from Whincups brake adventure, but apparently Kees Weel was hit in the face by shrapnel from Whincups car!
Yes the rotor was from Whincups car that hit Mr weel. In fact it was Mr Weels brake rotor.

A piece of brake rotor went into the corporate part of the tower and burnt through a table cloth and the carpet.
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Old 25 Jul 2006, 02:26 (Ref:1663809)   #13
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The biggest indictment in my mind has been the lack of penalties for crashes behind the safety car, I can think of 1 in V8SC and have seen a few in coverage of FFord. How about even looking at lap times of those catching up to “the train” after a pit stop – how many of those would be at race pace?

I like Rombles’ idea of a speed limiter, perhaps it would be possible to combine this with a Speedway style light on the dash which indicates when the driver must activate the speed limiter, eg what track segment or perhaps activated by short-range transmitters at that segment. This could include having a couple of speed options as mentioned.

I am sure a system along these lines would be possible, which would allow for less SC intervention, less lost race time and less disruption of positions and margins.
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Old 25 Jul 2006, 03:33 (Ref:1663827)   #14
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Denosaur should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridDenosaur should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by RotorFan
It seems like every round there is a major lack of competency in the various officials.
Some of those officials are competent, but it's the officials in Race Control who lack the competency to be able to safely instruct those officials on the ground.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RotorFan
What about the cars literally racing past the rescue vehicle when the track was meant to be full-course yellow? That was astounding. Every single offending car should have been DQ for that.
I didn't see the telecast, but from this I would assume that your saying that the vehicle was moving on track?? If so, this is something a lot of these guys would have been tested on when they did there CAMS driver evaluations. They obviously don't remember how they should drive....

Quote:
Originally Posted by RotorFan
Getting away with handing out ludicrous penalties is one thing, but the lack of accountability in areas of safety is crazy.
I agree, some of these people who are incharge of safety have nothing but contempt for the people working trackside, and take absoultly no notice of the information passed onto them. I recently read a document into the death of an official a couple of years ago, and found some of the comments in there to be far from the truth, at the time the death occured. Until a "Workcover" authority steps in along with Volunteer advocates in the various states, these guys will continuly get left with the short straw on safety and work conditions.
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Old 25 Jul 2006, 06:43 (Ref:1663878)   #15
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Originally Posted by Denosaur
I didn't see the telecast, but from this I would assume that your saying that the vehicle was moving on track?? If so, this is something a lot of these guys would have been tested on when they did there CAMS driver evaluations. They obviously don't remember how they should drive....
They just think hey are above it all.
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Old 25 Jul 2006, 07:09 (Ref:1663899)   #16
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Whoa, I had no idea that the shrapnel from Whincup's car was that bad. The problem is that this isn't a once a year sort of thing. This year there have been multiple instances of stupidity from the drivers and marshals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnh875
I like Rombles’ idea of a speed limiter, perhaps it would be possible to combine this with a Speedway style light on the dash which indicates when the driver must activate the speed limiter, eg what track segment or perhaps activated by short-range transmitters at that segment. This could include having a couple of speed options as mentioned.
That is a damn good idea. A few problems from that though:

1. Will the driver notice the light on the dash?
2. To get around that you could make it automatically engage. However that wouldn't do the gearboxes any good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnh875
I am sure a system along these lines would be possible, which would allow for less SC intervention, less lost race time and less disruption of positions and margins.
Yes, but you're forgetting that Race Control will do anything to get a Safety Car out close to the finish.
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Old 25 Jul 2006, 10:53 (Ref:1664064)   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmifsud
Just watch an F1 race, they'll have diggers and cranes in the sandtraps and only have a local yellow, which in my opinion is sufficient. The only problem with the local yellows is that the drivers don't often observe the intended speed reduction.
Just because they do it in F1 doesn't make it right.
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