Home Mobile Forum News Cookbook FaceBook Us T-Shirts etc.: Europe/Worldwide. eBay Motorsport Links Advertising  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Australasian Touring Cars.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 8 Apr 2019, 06:01 (Ref:3896125)   #1
GTRMagic
Race Official
1% Club
 
GTRMagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Australia
Sell me this pen....
Posts: 45,080
GTRMagic is going for a new world record!GTRMagic is going for a new world record!GTRMagic is going for a new world record!GTRMagic is going for a new world record!GTRMagic is going for a new world record!GTRMagic is going for a new world record!GTRMagic is going for a new world record!
[VASC19R9R10]WD40 Phillip Island Supersprint, 12-14 Apr

Phillip Island is aero country...

A place where the low drag, high downforce setup, accompanied by strong engine power, will be super competitive...

The expectation therefore is that this might be a full house Mustang track..

Or not..

Hard to know..

But not long til we find out...
GTRMagic is offline  
__________________
Think Tank.. Creative Inertia..
Always Be Closing.. Telling's Not Selling..
Perpetuate The Cycle.. GTS - Google That Stuff..
Manufacturing Intellect..
Motion Creates Emotion..
Take control of your journey..
Savings. Service. Satisfaction..
You cannot follow fake and expect to find real..
Give me health and strength, we'll steal the rest..
It's easier to throw rocks at a house than to build one..
Quote
Old 9 Apr 2019, 06:46 (Ref:3896367)   #2
djr81
Racer
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 230
djr81 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTRMagic View Post
Phillip Island is aero country...

A place where the low drag, high downforce setup, accompanied by strong engine power, will be super competitive...

The expectation therefore is that this might be a full house Mustang track..

Or not..

Hard to know..

But not long til we find out...
Hell must be freezing over as I find myself agreeing with something one of the Walkinshaw family is saying.

https://www.motorsport.com/v8superca...nshaw/4366978/
djr81 is offline  
Quote
Old 9 Apr 2019, 10:14 (Ref:3896393)   #3
Umai Naa
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 6,736
Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
He's absolutely right.

We're at a crucial point where the technology is far ahead of the testing process. Some very clever people have managed to reverse-engineer the tests to design a car that fits them.
Umai Naa is online now  
Quote
Old 9 Apr 2019, 11:00 (Ref:3896400)   #4
V8 Fireworks
Veteran
 
V8 Fireworks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,668
V8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Umai Naa View Post
Some very clever people have managed to reverse-engineer the tests to design a car that fits them.
Lol, that's a funny way of saying "build a car to the rules"...

The test gives you a target: therefore you get the best performance possible (i.e., at untested conditions) while hitting the target. Seems like Engineering 101, nothing more than that!

I would more than welcome proper touring car rules where you start with the actual car, weld-in a roll cage and upgrade the suspension arms, engine, gearbox, differential while starting with the engine block and suspension points and type of the road car. Where you are given dimensional boxes for your front splitter and rear wing, rather than an aero target. Glass windows, and production panels all round! That would sure be a lot better IMO!

Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 9 Apr 2019 at 11:06.
V8 Fireworks is online now  
Quote
Old 10 Apr 2019, 06:24 (Ref:3896525)   #5
Mixer
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
Surry Hills, NSW
Posts: 5,133
Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks View Post
I would more than welcome proper touring car rules where you start with the actual car, weld-in a roll cage and upgrade the suspension arms, engine, gearbox, differential while starting with the engine block and suspension points and type of the road car. Where you are given dimensional boxes for your front splitter and rear wing, rather than an aero target. Glass windows, and production panels all round! That would sure be a lot better IMO!
So you'd like:

1. Cars that are far less reliable than current
2. Cars that are more time consuming & expensive to repair and far less repairable than current (meaning more non-starters of racing due to damage
3. Literally neverending complaints of unfairness between makes, and domination by one make as one finds a loophole in the rules or is given extra freedoms

And probably most significantly:
4. Guaranteed fatality crashes

Really, if you want the above, watch TCR. They manage to more or less avoid point 4, by being slow.
Mixer is online now  
Quote
Old 10 Apr 2019, 07:28 (Ref:3896537)   #6
Umai Naa
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 6,736
Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Nailed it.
Umai Naa is online now  
Quote
Old 10 Apr 2019, 07:52 (Ref:3896541)   #7
V8 Fireworks
Veteran
 
V8 Fireworks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,668
V8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixer View Post
So you'd like:
These:



But obviously with Mustang, Camaro and Infiniti Q60 instead of EBs and VPs (and the stroked out BMW 540i that SHOULD have been on the grid from the Gardner team!).

Your other points are a load of nonsense.

Rallying is from more dangerous than circuit racing, yet WRC works perfectly well with production bodyshells. A Toyota Yaris actually looks like and is based on a Yaris, a Citroen C3 actually looks like and is based on a C3, a Ford Fiesta actually looks like and is based on a Fiesta, same goes for the Hyundai i20.

Quote:
3. Literally neverending complaints of unfairness between makes, and domination by one make as one finds a loophole in the rules or is given extra freedoms
They have a lot of FIXED (same for everyone) freedoms under WRC compared to Group A obviously, and it works very well. Teams are actually allowed to go out and build the best possible car to the set of rules that are the same for everybody. No parity complaints, no balance of performance, close competition -- it's fantastic!



Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 10 Apr 2019 at 08:07.
V8 Fireworks is online now  
Quote
Old 10 Apr 2019, 08:10 (Ref:3896544)   #8
Umai Naa
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 6,736
Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
So the teams have to buy a $60K-$150K roadcar, strip it right back to a bare shell, acid dip it, seam weld it, put a cage in it, add in spefic-to-the car driveline components and suspension, and somehow you'll tell me that's more cost-effective as well as "better" than what we have now, and be able to acheive the parity that is cornerstone to the sport?

Nah.
Umai Naa is online now  
Quote
Old 10 Apr 2019, 08:45 (Ref:3896552)   #9
V8 Fireworks
Veteran
 
V8 Fireworks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,668
V8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Umai Naa View Post
So the teams have to buy a $60K-$150K roadcar, strip it right back to a bare shell, acid dip it, seam weld it, put a cage in it, add in spefic-to-the car driveline components and suspension, and somehow you'll tell me that's more cost-effective as well as "better" than what we have now, and be able to acheive the parity that is cornerstone to the sport?
1. They buy a kit of pressings (floor pan, sill panel etc) and weld them together, not a complete car.

2. Yes, they did it this way before, they can do it again.

It works -- it actually removes the parity shennigans because you will be racing three cars that are fundamentally similar (Mustang, Camaro, Infiniti Q60), all with say 5.0L engines with a simple 8000rpm rev limit (knock yourself out on engine development! ).

They will be using production panels, standard suspension pickup points & wheelbase of each vehicle, have a clearly defined box to design their aero in, a clearly defined maximum wheel track -- and may the best team win. No "but he has that", "but, but, but I want to have that to". You are actually allowed to build the best car and best engine you can.

Don't you see how well the WRC example works!?

It actually fixes everything that is contrived, stifling and restrictive about the current rules. Rules like control wheels, control pedal boxes, control brakes and control camshafts have brought nothing positive to the sport. Costs are as high as ever -- the teams will always spend as much as they can find, so let's give them something useful to spend it on!

Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 10 Apr 2019 at 08:53.
V8 Fireworks is online now  
Quote
Old 10 Apr 2019, 08:55 (Ref:3896555)   #10
Umai Naa
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 6,736
Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
How are 3 different cars more similar than the three we have, where the only key differences are the outer skins and engines?
Umai Naa is online now  
Quote
Old 10 Apr 2019, 09:02 (Ref:3896556)   #11
V8 Fireworks
Veteran
 
V8 Fireworks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,668
V8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Umai Naa View Post
How are 3 different cars more similar than the three we have,
Well most obviously, they are all coupes, instead of a mid-size sedan, a mid-size hatch and a coupe...

Infinti Q60
Height 1395mm
Length 4690mm

Mustang
Height 1381mm
Length 4784mm

Camaro
Height 1380mm
Length 4840mm

As you can see the dimensions match up closely, especially in height.

As opposed to currently where the Altima and Commodore are extremely mismatched to the Mustang which has led to a so-called parity debacle (as well as a hideous race car). Though to be fair, if the Mustang bodywork package is actually ~80kg lighter than the Commodore bodywork package as reported (120kg ballast for Mustang vs 40kg ballast for Commodore), that is a significant difference! All-in-all, the mismatch has created an untenable farce and should have been handled properly during homologation...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Umai Naa View Post
where the only key differences are the outer skins and engines?
So why are Nissan Altimas so heavily disadvantaged!? That is hardly a "cornerstone" level of parity is it!?

I think it's much better to set the same rules for everybody and may the best team win! It removes the parity shenanigans altogether, as everyone has the same rule book and same areas of developments to work with. Here is a box, design your aero within with a maximum of 2 wing elements (etc). It works in F1, in works in WRC, it is the way rules should be written -- free from farcical runway 'equalisation' exercises.
V8 Fireworks is online now  
Quote
Old 10 Apr 2019, 09:44 (Ref:3896558)   #12
Umai Naa
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 6,736
Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
It's a parity series.

That's what the catagory is trying to ensure.
Umai Naa is online now  
Quote
Old 10 Apr 2019, 10:10 (Ref:3896563)   #13
Jerico
Racer
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
New Zealand
Posts: 463
Jerico should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Supercars have been a step behind on this one for sure. The rules need to move with the cars, but I don't think it's broken. The ballast thing should have been a lot tighter. Going back to production car bodies will open up another can of worms for sure. pick out WRC yes they race mostly on dirt. F1 ok one manufacture gains a technological edge so wins all the races, the team mates fight over wins all session and the championship is decided with four rounds to go. Or do you go NASCAR, plastic body looks nothing like the road going car, but for the grill and headlight shape. works for them looking from afar? Then in saying all that, how long is the rear wheel drive Mustang Camaro or the like going to be around for?
Jerico is offline  
Quote
Old 10 Apr 2019, 10:32 (Ref:3896565)   #14
V8 Fireworks
Veteran
 
V8 Fireworks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,668
V8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Umai Naa View Post
It's a parity series. That's what the catagory is trying to ensure.
Seems to be failing Kelly Racing -- where is their parity?
V8 Fireworks is online now  
Quote
Old 10 Apr 2019, 10:48 (Ref:3896569)   #15
Umai Naa
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 6,736
Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
They've allowed several aero revisions, composite panels, and have set them as the baseline for COG.

The Kellys need to work harder.
Umai Naa is online now  
Quote
Reply

Bookmarks




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
[VASC18R09R10] WD40 Phillip Island 500, 20-22 April 2018 GTRMagic Australasian Touring Cars. 93 26 Apr 2018 10:22
[VASC17R5R6] WD40 SuperSprint, Phillip Island: 21-23 Apr GTRMagic Australasian Touring Cars. 248 1 May 2017 22:09
[VASC16R6R7] WD40 Phillip Island SuperSprint - 15-17Apr GTRMagic Australasian Touring Cars. 32 17 Apr 2016 13:49
[iV8SC15R31R32R33] WD40 Phillip Island SuperSprint: 20-22Nov GTRMagic Australasian Touring Cars. 145 24 Nov 2015 23:17
[V8SC09R21&22] The Island 300, Phillip Island Go Harder. Australasian Touring Cars. 303 13 Nov 2009 04:59


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 04:41.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2018 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.