New Track Design

[ScotsBrutesFan]

I'll wait for others to comment, but what you might have improved in pit exit and that I'd say is arguable, you've lost in T1 run off.

Oh and save some of the expense on tarmac, and get rid of most of those options...one for a short circuit and another to break up the length of the back straight for those that need it and that'll do.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

I'm curious to see the revised pit area as for me this is the circuit's weakest area.

I'd also agree that designing to run both directions is very difficult to do safely. AU N EGL has mentioned flag stands, but I'd also mention recovery vehicles.

If you look at a circuit of reasonable size, the walls/barriers to the sides of the straights have breaks in them, these breaks are overlapped so that a rescue vehicle can access the course but be safely behind the wall until needed.
Going the other way, these breaks in the wall literally become big holes in the safety of the circuit.

An example below, the Red arrow indicates the race direction with the yellow pointing to the rescue vehicle access point. Going the other way and the gap in the wall is huge, whether there is a recovery vehicle filling it or not.

I agree with Scots here, If you went the other way on Scots pic, then there is that BIG wall end to run into.

If you want it counter clock wise, go for it. But keep it one direction.

[matarleton]

Actually, we intend to be able to break up the track into two smaller tracks for certain events and we would like to have variation in those. I can appreciate the savings in money but this is not a conventional motorsports track where we are simply focusing on races. Kind of a long story to get into the business model.

I will look at seeing if I can increase T1 runoff more.

Thanks for all your advice and replies.

Matt

[matarleton]

Unless something can be developed with a moveable wall system that is safe, we will run counter clockwise. That is one of those things we will just have to see.

Thanks,

Matt

[ScotsBrutesFan]

How set in stone is the layout of the pits and buildings?

[matarleton]

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

How set in stone is the layout of the pits and buildings?

Getting into alot more than track design and layout when we get into that area. Development, zoning, state land-use, water management, etc. Not merely a determination that could be made looking at the layout of the site on paper and also a tremendous amount of difference internationally, state-to-state and even locally with regualtions.

I would still like to hear your criticism but we are getting into a different area.

Thanks,

Matt

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Its not a criticism, simply that having the pits and those buildings opposite tend to lock the design into the hairpin T1 and then a second angular hairpin of the double right T2/T3.
It seriously limits safe ways of exiting the pits.

As you say, I'm only looking at a piece of paper representation, and there may well be specific reasons for locating the pits and these other buildings in that way.

[matarleton]

The main purpose in the building units arragment is to maximize the view from the condos and the appearance of them to the driver. The buildings, as they are currently designed are an "Italian Renaissance" design, three stories tall. The feel is that of coming down the frontstretch and making the hairpin looking at this Monaco style "street scape" and then around them to the mid stretch. Beyond the midstretch and around the carousel (which takes you around a preserved wetlands area and down the long backstretch area and around the large wetlands area and back up to the front. The feeling we are trying to achieve is like driving a roadcourse in and out of a small village. If you picture it the way I do, it is awesome.

As far as the pits, the exit is very similar to Sebring in that you are exiting out of the pits to the outside of T1 where the racing line is to the inside. In fact, I believe Sebrings pit exit is a little closer to the racing line in that you exit behind the point of initial radii thus possibly encroaching upon a car setting up to the outside for T1. In our track design the hairpin is a late apex further removing pit exit from the racing line. I am however trying to do something about T1 runoff.

The buildings, besides being located where they are for appearance and feel for the course are also located where they are to maximize view for the condo owners.

Good points. If I can do something better with pit exit, I will post the revision.

Thanks,

Matt

[LuiggiSpeed]

Uhh what happened there?

THeres a bug now on the pit exit that wasn't there before.I think exit lane was just fine, now the exit would be obtrusive to racers going hot, as the exiting racer will need to slow down while taking the corner, whilst before ,exiting racer simply go straight at the same speed, while hot racer would jump to the right while taking the corner.

Also, a sliding bike/car may collide with an exiting car.

Worst of all, we lost valuable run-off.




I have plenty of experience in this scenario, as my favorite corner on my home track is almost the exact scenario.

[matarleton]

Fret not. It is returning back closer to the original.

Matt

[LuiggiSpeed]

Out of control bikes will most likely go there the brown line indicates, as me and my home boys will show to ya'.....








fortunately, it would be a "sloww speed corner" so just that little run off you had there before should be good, provided it's not grass alone.

[LuiggiSpeed]

In my proposed track, I have almost the exact scenario as well:

[matarleton]

Next revision. Here I have added to elements, gravel traps. Keep in mind that the track runs counter clockwise. Vehicles that lose it down the end of the hairpin, can't do much about that. A choice has to be made, either come out outside of the racing line or come out into it. I don't want the vehicle exiting pit road to cause the accident. This attempt at pit exit allows both the driver on the track and the driver exiting to see the other.

This one also provides more runoff area all the way around.

What about this one?

Matt

[TilkeWannabe]

The original version was indeed hard to see but I could actually see it and it is an interesting design to say the least. Quite a few events could be held there with the number of variations. Personally I would have the track clockwise. I'll leave the talking about the run-offs and walls etc to the people who know more than me, not exactly my thing.

TW

[matarleton]

OK. Sorry. Pay no attention to the last one. I think I like this one the best.

Matt

[LuiggiSpeed]

While it looks geometrically cool, my personal opinion is you have a possibility to get racing cars and exiting cars sort of mixed up on that arrangement,since racers may like to go wide for whatever reason, facing slowing traffic on the outside line.

IMHO, the best option would be to exit well before the hairpin, totally out of the race line and then make them circle around.That way there's absolutly no interaction between racing cars and exiting cars,and in any case, the gravel trap + a tire barrier + a concrete wall should provide good protection for the exiting racers in the case somebody gets a stroke or totally lose braking or direction and keeps going straight. I'm not kidding, I have seen personally all of the above situations in racing venues.



I hope I'm not being anoyingly obsessed, were just brainstorming here, Matt.

Luiggi

[LuiggiSpeed]

Hey ,BTW, cool with me running CCW, I see no reason why a track "should" be ran either way, run-offs and logistics should take care of that.Now the cool thing would be to be able to do both.

[matarleton]

Not at all. I appreciate your comments. I think no matter what way, there will be some sort of issue.

Thanks,

Matt

[ScotsBrutesFan]

I have to say that Luiggispeed's pit exit proposal is certainly the best one so far. It even allows for a "don't Cross" line to extend a bit towards T2.

On the down side, it's a long pit exit, but given the options it has to be the way to go.

[Iceman13]

If the track is driven counter-clockwise, i think that the best solution would be to have the pit exit a bit further down the straight, so that other racers would be on the left side of the track for turn 2.

[matarleton]

What worries me about Luiggispeeds revision is that of a car comes out of the turn too fast and slides off, they will plow into an exiting vehicle on the pit road. Solution to that is to line that pit road all the way down with a wall. Then we are back to reduced runoff area and if it runs clockwise, a wall stcking out towards the track.

Matt

[ScotsBrutesFan]

To be honest forget both directions....it's way to much of a comprimise to satisfy safety both ways.

[matarleton]

Here is another version. It satisfies my thing about walls sticking out, gravel trap separates pit road from track, pit road enters back into track at point where racing line is at a late apex and thus the farthest away and it still maintains a large runoff after the gravel trap and pit road.

Thoughts please. This works both directions also.

Well, I will post it as soon as the web will allow.

Matt

[matarleton]

Well, I still can't bring up the attachments.

Matt

[matarleton]

Got it to attach.