New to historic racing, advice please.

[eclectic]

Last year I mooted a similar thread, but as I have just sold my pre-war racer I am now thinking along these lines again.

I am seriously considering getting a car to use in Top Hat/Cloth Cap racing.

Budget to buy, circa £15,000.

Annual maintenance, circa £5,000.

Able to run mid pack.

Reliable and road useable.

Preferably FIA.

I would prefer something well sorted rather than spending a season or two getting a car race ready.

I might consider a car for the 70's series, I have a penchant for Fiat Twinkie engines.

Any thoughts to guide me? You lot certainly stimulated my brain cells last time round.

[Peter Mallett]

Hmm,

I don't think there are any Fiat twinkies with the necessary homologation for Group 1 (Seventies Saloons).

Your budget would just about suit an MGB for cloth cap.

[eclectic]

What about the Fiat 124 Coupe' I remember having one circa 1972, a wonderful car, are they not homologated?

[Peter Mallett]

Don't think they meet the criteria for Group 1 Touring Cars. Possibly due to number of doors or seats or something.

What about an Alfa of some description?

[zefarelly]

for Top Hat your going to struggle to find a competitive car for that money, Unless you build your own ???

mines probably cost something approaching 15k in all honesty, and I built it my self, should be class competitive within FiA regs by the end of this year hopefully

I woulds be very tempted to go for a post historic, late 60's early 70's, the new proposed Top Hat series along with all the exisiting should make for an exciting diary, and the cars are still relatively cheap

[eclectic]

I'm seriously thinking about a 1970 1600cc twin Weber Fiat Spider, a top hat series for the 70's? Really?

[Peter Mallett]

Its for 70's Group 1 Touring Cars as I understand it. A ragtop doesn't qualify. And as its Group 1 you need a car that was homologated to those regs.

Don't know where the Spider fits because I don't believe they had a competiton history.

As to Zef's "cheap" theory. You could build one like mine for around 15k Sterling. And that is only halfway competitive. Ergo its better to go for an alfa (the 1978 FWD Alfetta comes to mind).

[eclectic]

I have no idea why historic racing regs are so arcane, plenty of people raced Fiat Spiders in the USA in period, surely applying all the Gp 1 touring cars homologation regs just make it more elitist and expensive?

Are the powers that be trying to bump up prices of cars they own?

I might as well carry on VSCC racing if that's the case!

(My tongue is firmly in my cheek!)

The Spider or the Coupe' would would both be eligible for the HSCC '70's series, I'm pretty ignorant on the difference between the '70's HSCC regs and Group 1.

[Peter Mallett]

Group 1 is an FIA Touring Car (i.e. 4 seater saloon car) regulation and therefore could not accommodate a rag top. If the spiders raced what regs applied?

I'm not familiar with the HSCC regs but it sounds like your proposed car would fit into the Cloth Cap series. But I'd ask the organisers first. No point in going out and buying a car if it doesn't fit anywhere.

[eclectic]

Well most domestic racing in the USA could not give a fig for FIA or its regs!

I will talk to the Cloth cap organisers and see what they think, it would be a great car to use, so much better than an MGB, mind you that's hardly a yardstick!

[Peter Mallett]

Originally posted by eclectic
Well most domestic racing in the USA could not give a fig for FIA or its regs!

There's your answer then. Go race there!

[eclectic]

They certainly raced under SCCA rules in the US, though I don't think that the FIA has anything to do with them!

[Peter Mallett]

Mike,

Its quite simple. The Top Hat regs cover many different groups but they major on FIA App K Saloon Cars. The new series for 70's Touring Cars will be (I believe) based on Group 1, so no sports cars in those two series.

I'm not sure what the regs are for Cloth Cap but I presume thay cater for the HSCC, MGCC, JEC, TSOC regs etc. and include App K. So that's where a rag top fits if it comes under the age limit. If not then HSCC 70's sports cars.

[simon drabble]

I think it has to be pre 66 (ie Appendix K cut off) - you will be able to do the HSCC 70's roadsports and the advantage of that is that the cars have to be almost standard so prepping should be nominal but you are not going to be able to race in Europe with it as it will not have FIA papers ....

[simon drabble]

by the way what happened to the car that you were going to buy last year? Last time you wrote about it the deal had effectively been done..

[Dave Brand]

Originally posted by Peter Mallett
Ergo its better to go for an alfa (the 1978 FWD Alfetta comes to mind).

FWD? They were rear wheel drive, with a rear-mounted transaxle, weren't they?

[Peter Mallett]

I thought Jon Dooley ran an FWD car. But if not then go for one of those anyway.

[Bishop Ranter]

Eclectic

The Bishop has sent you a message via this site. I mislaid your email address after we spoke. My aplogies but the Bishop's Palace looks like a bunch of drunken nuns (Sisters of Sin) have visited (if only!).

[Dave Brand]

Originally posted by Peter Mallett
I thought Jon Dooley ran an FWD car.

That was an Alfasud; he also raced, among others, a GTV6 & a 75, both variations on the transaxle theme. (Amazing how knowledgeable a quick Yahoo search can make one appear!)

But if not then go for one of those anyway.

Any Alfa is fine by me!

[Peter Mallett]

LOL. I justwent to Dogpile and typed in "Jon Dooley BTCC" and came up with my own web pages!

[eclectic]

I backed off, partly cos I had a health scare, but that has been sorted without too many problems.

Also I felt that I was rushing into it all..... You know, buy in haste repent at leisure!

I will have to see if I could use a Fiat coupe' that's a tin top.

[zefarelly]

Originally posted by eclectic
I will have to see if I could use a Fiat coupe' that's a tin top.

you'll get it down to homoogated weight in about 3 laps . . .a freind who had one said a piece fell off every time he opened or shut a door

It appears the FiA are leaning towards eliminating any non homologated cars, although there are far more of them than FiA spec cars around so there will always be a series.

typical of the Yanks to have a **** the FiA attitude . . . and I thought they loved Urup and its legislation !

[Peter Mallett]

Zef makes a good point. You don't have to go for a "historic" series. You can look at championships where a sports car of any kind can be used.

[Peter Mallett]

If you go to this site there's a couple of vidoes of the CTCRC pre 83 Group 1 Championship.

http://www.csccgb.co.uk/

[eclectic]

I could use a twincam spider, circa 1971, 1600cc twin webers in the HSCC 70's series and Julius's GTA Challenge.....